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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mercule" data-source="post: 7249960" data-attributes="member: 5100">I agree with you -- in part. Too many options drive the focus too much to character creation/management and overly reward game mastery.My personal belief is that a certain amount of options improve the game but that there's a breaking point where the brain can't appropriately process them. Different people will, of course, have different caps. The rules should tend toward the mode.For top-level classes, I think the sweet spot is in the 12-15 range, with an absolute max in the 18-20 range.Sub-classes allow a "funnel" approach, but I don't think it's appropriate to have quite so wide of a pipe. Maybe a half-dozen sub-classes per class. There are some exceptions, like Cleric domains, say.From a certain perspective, you can't get away from sub-sub-classes. Rogue Expertise or a Fighter's Style are sub-menus. A Sorcerer's spells definitely qualify as added fidgetyness well beyond a Totem Warrior has to deal with. There's actually a pretty good argument that the Eldritch Knight selecting spells is exactly the same sort of added complexity as the Totem Warrior has, just substituting spells for rage, as would be the Battle Master's Maneuvers. The only difference is that the Totem Warrior is flavored as a vertical slice, rather than a pick list (which it actually is).If the sub-sub-class is fairly tight and well defined, I don't have an issue with it. There's a line, somewhere, but I'm not entirely sure where.Take specialist Wizards, as an example. I'm not exactly enamored of the current setup. It makes too many sub-classes, for my comfort. It also makes things like Bladesinger feel somewhat mismatched. I'd rather see sub-classes like School Specialist, Warmage, Bladesinger, and Hedge Mage. In that model, just taking the current Specialist abilities and moving them to a sub-sub-class would be way too complex -- it's no longer a refinement. On the other hand, a reasonably unified list of abilities would make a ton of sense. For example (and train of thought, so don't be too harsh): * Each school has an opposition school (check 2E for a list).* Cast spells of your school as if they were one level higher (or +1 to save DC/attacks -- not both).* Cannot learn opposition spell schools.* Every level, you gain an extra spell from your school.</blockquote>

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