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Do you make your good gods worth worshipping?
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 2181247" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>That is a very subtle question and it can be answered in alot of ways.</p><p></p><p>First, in the sense of being a worthwhile source of aid and support, then yes, the good gods are worth worshiping. Divine intervention is particularly common in my campaign. In fact, I like to tell players that everyone on the planet can reasonably expect the gods to directly intervene in thier lives at least once in a significant and recognizable way. Powerful figures can expect regular intervention, and if you ever get really famous - your patron might just well show up for a chat sometime.</p><p></p><p>But this works both ways. The evil gods are also a worthwhile source of aid and support, and in the since that they can be persuaded to further your personal ambitions far more easily than the good gods, they are also 'worth' worshiping. They also will divinely intervene on behalf of thier servants, and against the forces of good. So its not at all clear from a pragmatic standpoint which side is more worth serving. The good side tends to be a little more circumspect about giving out aid, but their repayment plan tends to be ALOT less harsh.</p><p></p><p>So, from a pragmatic standpoint, you might say in my campaign that its a draw. Most NPC's in the world tend to look at it that way, and have no problems worshiping Lado in the morning and Vansansel in the afternoon. "Keep your portfolio broad.", they might say. "Hedge your long term investments with short term gains."</p><p></p><p>But as a highly religious person in real life, the idea of the worth of worshipping a deity merely being a matter of how much you can get out of it strikes me as a bit shallow. In fact, one of the biggest problems I have with most D&D deities is that none of them offer anything like a really compelling system of beliefs. The Forgotten Realms is the perfect case in point. You have a god of Rangers, a god of Paladins, a god of Thieves, a god of Fighters, a god of Magic Users, and a god of Adventurers in general. I'm only surprised that they don't have a god of clerics. This is conveinent from the standpoint of giving a patron to everyone in the party, but from a theological perspective its just completely unsatisfying. I find myself looking over lists wondering why anyone worships these idiots at all. </p><p></p><p>I try my best to avoid that. I try to make the deity represent something compelling and meaningful, and to be in thier way an attractive figure which you can see people following devotedly. For example, a god of say foolishness isn't just about making stupid mistakes, he also about forgiveness, humility, not taking yourself too seriously, jovality, recreation and making the most out of life. And even if he was only the god of fools, then he certainly could find more people to relate to him than a god of say Paladins or even Thieves. So in the sense of being compelling figures worthy of admiration by people who share thier outlook on life, yes, I try to do my best to make them worthy of worship.</p><p></p><p>But there is an even deeper sense than that. No matter how admirable these figures might be, just who do they think they are demanding our worship? After all, they are in a very real sense just big powerful blown up exaggerated versions of ourselves. They are not omniscient. They are not omnipotent. They are not perfect. Sure the best of them may be wise beyond mortal means, and do a better job of living up to thier outlook than we ever could, but they still make mistakes. Just where do they get off bullying people into thier service just because they are bigger and powerful than we are? What gives them the right to expect that we should be all worshipful and appreciative of thier meddling into our daily affairs, watching over us, punishing us, and so forth. What makes these gods so worthy of worship in the first place?</p><p></p><p>And THAT is a very good question which lots of theologians in my campaign try to give very good answers to - though some of thier books will get you killed if you are caught reading them. Starting up a cult dedicated to the worship of a god of famine and pestilance will get you hanged in most places, but publically saying, "These gods aren't worthy of worship. They scarcely deserve the title." will get you hanged EVERYWHERE in my campaign.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 2181247, member: 4937"] That is a very subtle question and it can be answered in alot of ways. First, in the sense of being a worthwhile source of aid and support, then yes, the good gods are worth worshiping. Divine intervention is particularly common in my campaign. In fact, I like to tell players that everyone on the planet can reasonably expect the gods to directly intervene in thier lives at least once in a significant and recognizable way. Powerful figures can expect regular intervention, and if you ever get really famous - your patron might just well show up for a chat sometime. But this works both ways. The evil gods are also a worthwhile source of aid and support, and in the since that they can be persuaded to further your personal ambitions far more easily than the good gods, they are also 'worth' worshiping. They also will divinely intervene on behalf of thier servants, and against the forces of good. So its not at all clear from a pragmatic standpoint which side is more worth serving. The good side tends to be a little more circumspect about giving out aid, but their repayment plan tends to be ALOT less harsh. So, from a pragmatic standpoint, you might say in my campaign that its a draw. Most NPC's in the world tend to look at it that way, and have no problems worshiping Lado in the morning and Vansansel in the afternoon. "Keep your portfolio broad.", they might say. "Hedge your long term investments with short term gains." But as a highly religious person in real life, the idea of the worth of worshipping a deity merely being a matter of how much you can get out of it strikes me as a bit shallow. In fact, one of the biggest problems I have with most D&D deities is that none of them offer anything like a really compelling system of beliefs. The Forgotten Realms is the perfect case in point. You have a god of Rangers, a god of Paladins, a god of Thieves, a god of Fighters, a god of Magic Users, and a god of Adventurers in general. I'm only surprised that they don't have a god of clerics. This is conveinent from the standpoint of giving a patron to everyone in the party, but from a theological perspective its just completely unsatisfying. I find myself looking over lists wondering why anyone worships these idiots at all. I try my best to avoid that. I try to make the deity represent something compelling and meaningful, and to be in thier way an attractive figure which you can see people following devotedly. For example, a god of say foolishness isn't just about making stupid mistakes, he also about forgiveness, humility, not taking yourself too seriously, jovality, recreation and making the most out of life. And even if he was only the god of fools, then he certainly could find more people to relate to him than a god of say Paladins or even Thieves. So in the sense of being compelling figures worthy of admiration by people who share thier outlook on life, yes, I try to do my best to make them worthy of worship. But there is an even deeper sense than that. No matter how admirable these figures might be, just who do they think they are demanding our worship? After all, they are in a very real sense just big powerful blown up exaggerated versions of ourselves. They are not omniscient. They are not omnipotent. They are not perfect. Sure the best of them may be wise beyond mortal means, and do a better job of living up to thier outlook than we ever could, but they still make mistakes. Just where do they get off bullying people into thier service just because they are bigger and powerful than we are? What gives them the right to expect that we should be all worshipful and appreciative of thier meddling into our daily affairs, watching over us, punishing us, and so forth. What makes these gods so worthy of worship in the first place? And THAT is a very good question which lots of theologians in my campaign try to give very good answers to - though some of thier books will get you killed if you are caught reading them. Starting up a cult dedicated to the worship of a god of famine and pestilance will get you hanged in most places, but publically saying, "These gods aren't worthy of worship. They scarcely deserve the title." will get you hanged EVERYWHERE in my campaign. [/QUOTE]
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