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Message: <blockquote data-quote="billd91" data-source="post: 7175749" data-attributes="member: 3400">Wow are we down the rabbit hole. Obryn spreading women-hating crap? That's about the most newspeak thing I've heard around here in a long while.No man can meet the standard either without looking like a dehydrated, abdominal exercise model - yet there's no limit to the number of those out there. And in much larger numbers than women in the same roles. And you're quibbling because women are actually enjoying when a character they identify with are getting a bit of that spotlight too?  Worse, you're implying it's misogynist? That sounds more like trying to turn the term around because depictions of women are daring to tread on masculine territory and women are actually professing to enjoy it rather than be pigeon-holed in more appropriately feminine roles.No kidding you can contribute to an RPG without being a melee warrior. That's not the point. The point is by penalizing female characters because of some ill-considered devotion to "realism" in that regard you're also penalizing female players by reducing the ways they can excel within the game. If the male player has 10 fully competitive options while the female player has 9, how welcoming is that to women? How are they supposed to feel about a game that gives their male peers more options than them? In a world history with centuries of even worse offerings, I'm not sure I'd tolerate that as a woman, not when it's an effing game.Like hell it's not. It's a fantasy game in which people get to play people more adventurous than themselves, larger than life, capable of tremendous feats of heroism. It's patently obvious that the game has no valid reason to privilege one category of players over another.Again, what's the real world have to do with who gets to have the strongest strength score in a fantasy game? Nothing. The differences between men and women in the real world are not important enough to model in a fantasy RPG. Certainly not when doing so runs the risk of limiting the appeal to the market of women gamers. Any game company that does that deserves the trouble it will bring them (and lack of players it will also bring)."Women aren't as good as men"? What do you mean by that? Are you trying to say that because someone says female characters, in a game where they aren't as competitive as male characters because of the rules, are less attractive as a choice means that they're saying that "women aren't as good as men" in reality? If you are, that's a terrible logical leap to make and wrong. Rather, there are a good many of us who value our female peers and fellow players and therefore wouldn't tolerate a game that presents their gender in a way that renders it inferior in choices or capability. It doesn't matter if my wife isn't as strong as I am, if she wants to play a strong, hammer-wielding paladin, she should be able to do so without hindrance and without having to play a character gender she doesn't identify with.</blockquote>

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