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<blockquote data-quote="Obryn" data-source="post: 7175753" data-attributes="member: 11821">Oh my god, allowing male and female characters in Dungeons and Dragons to be equally competent at any class they choose is not 'corrosive, woman-hating nonsense.'And - like I said - you know that's nonsense. That's not what anyone is saying. They are saying that codifying this inequality into the rule-set of Dungeons and Dragons means that you are limiting the archetypes that female characters can excel at.Because here's what you're twisting up - you're taking a statement like &quot;female and male characters should not have sex-based limits or penalties on their attributes in the D&amp;D rule-set&quot; and mechanical statements like, &quot;penalizing female characters' stats makes them less optimal choices for many classes&quot; and trying to turn that into some kind of commentary on the real world. In other words, taking an affirmation of in-game equality, and trying to twist it into &quot;insisting on equal stats for male and female characters in D&amp;D is the real sexism&quot; That's seriously messed up.Here - let me give you an example. One of my players, Katie, has been playing in my games for like a decade and a half. For the next game, I tell her, &quot;Okay, so in this setting, female characters will have a -4 to strength because of physiology and a -2 to intelligence to represent their lack of education, relative to men.&quot; Do you think her response would be...(a) &quot;Wow, Obryn, that's kind of messed up and I'm not sure I want to particpate in this game.&quot;(b) &quot;Oh, thank goodness, I got tired of the sexism inherent in your failure to apply penalties to my badass female characters, and I will be happy to conform to classes that are better suited to my womanly limitations.&quot;But if I remember right, you were also the guy who thought that game stores shouldn't ban sexist behavior because it keeps women from having the opportunity to deal with and/or shut down sexist behavior, so this is kind of par for the course.&nbsp; (e: I might be confusing you with someone else, and if so, I apologize for misremembering. e2: No, you were the guy who said it's probably not really sexism when women are treated poorly at conventions and the like. Okay.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Obryn, post: 7175753, member: 11821"] [I]Oh my god[/I], allowing male and female characters in Dungeons and Dragons to be equally competent at any class they choose is not 'corrosive, woman-hating nonsense.' And - like I said - you know that's nonsense. That's not what anyone is saying. They are saying that [I]codifying this inequality into the rule-set of Dungeons and Dragons means that you are limiting the archetypes that female characters can excel at.[/I] Because here's what you're twisting up - you're taking a statement like "female and male characters should not have sex-based limits or penalties on their attributes in the D&D rule-set" and mechanical statements like, "penalizing female characters' stats makes them less optimal choices for many classes" and trying to turn that into some kind of commentary on the real world. In other words, taking an affirmation of in-game equality, and trying to twist it into "insisting on equal stats for male and female characters in D&D is the [I]real[/I] sexism" That's [I]seriously[/I] messed up. Here - let me give you an example. One of my players, Katie, has been playing in my games for like a decade and a half. For the next game, I tell her, "Okay, so in this setting, female characters will have a -4 to strength because of physiology and a -2 to intelligence to represent their lack of education, relative to men." Do you think her response would be... (a) "Wow, Obryn, that's kind of messed up and I'm not sure I want to particpate in this game." (b) "Oh, thank goodness, I got tired of the sexism inherent in your failure to apply penalties to my badass female characters, and I will be happy to conform to classes that are better suited to my womanly limitations." But if I remember right, you were also the guy who thought that game stores shouldn't ban sexist behavior because it keeps women from having the opportunity to deal with and/or shut down sexist behavior, so this is kind of par for the course. (e: I might be confusing you with someone else, and if so, I apologize for misremembering. e2: No, you were the guy who said it's probably not really sexism when women are treated poorly at conventions and the like. Okay.) [/QUOTE]

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