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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7187197" data-attributes="member: 4937">I'm increasingly realizing you are primarily a 2e player whose ideas about what is normal are primarily set by 2e.   I'm not familiar with the rules on creating magic items in 2e, but the rules in 1e for creating magic items are so harsh that generally speaking it does not happen.  The only magic items in 1e you might be able to make are scrolls and potions, if your DM is a bit on the generous side, and you won't really be able to create any of them before about name level when you can invest in a stronghold.A minor artifact like a 'Manual of Gainful Exercise'?  In 1e they most certainly could not!  Such mighty items as that could only be created by ancient NPCs with lore a PC could not hope to obtain themselves.  It said so right in the DMG.Wait... What?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!???!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?  Seriously, you think that say 3e had more limiting rules for creating magic items than 1e?  Compare how difficult it is in 1e to create say a sword +1 compared to how difficult it is in 3e and then come back to me.  In 1e you'd be like 13th level before you could even attempt it (compared to 5th), you'd need to specifically research a recipe for doing so, you'd need to have passed your checks for knowing the spells that were required (good luck with that if your INT is less than 18), etc.  Third edition was the first edition that outright endorsed magic item creation as something PC's could reliably do without long games of 'mother may I?' and costs that were not usually higher than the benefit gained.8{I'm beginning to think we weren't playing the same game.  I'm trying to think what treasure table of the AD&D era you think is generous with magic items.  If you played straight up by the tables, you'd end up with almost no magic items at all.  I had rep as a 'killer DM', but even I would place more magic items than the rules strictly called for.I've never seen a character in 1e AD&D hit 20th from 1st.  I was in a game for 5 years and my highest level character hit like 12th.  The only clue I have you are playing the same game as I'm familiar with is you've got a legitimate power gamer's build in a fighter 7/M-U 20.  Double specialized in dart?</blockquote>

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