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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7187211" data-attributes="member: 4937">I've seen the stats for Gygax's PC fighter, and his points at 12th level are in that range.&nbsp; Average hit points for a 9th level fighter with 18 Con at 9th level is 86, and you'll hit 90 a few levels after that.&nbsp;&nbsp; Basically, any fighter-subclass with good Con could expect to get to 90 eventually, especially post Unearthed Arcana when you could Cavalier your 16's into 17's and 17's into 18's.&nbsp; Throw on some Full Plate for some virtual hit points, and you could be very hard to kill indeed.If you didn't have good Con, but you had good Dex, then you could build an archer build and avoid going toe to toe with the foe.A barbarian with 18 Con could reliably hit ~130 hit points at 9th level.&nbsp; Granted, barbarian was a really slow class to level up, and by the time you got there you'd be levels behind your peers, and barbarian wasn't considered a real power gamers build because it was only really awesome at 1st level, but that was one way to get a ton of hit points.&nbsp; Bards with say 16 Con can get a ton of hit points as well, because they are a dual-class (actually triple class!) that gains additional HD.&nbsp; M-U's hit points sucked, and they were too squishy to reliably survive bad luck, but Helldritch points us to a common workaround - take 5-7 levels of fighter, then dual-class back into Wizard.&nbsp;&nbsp; You need great stats to pull it off - basically 17+ Int, 15+ Str, and 15+ Con, but if you have that through some method (ei, method III, method V, luck, wheedling the DM, cheating), then you have a M-U that does not have that problem everyone complains about playing a 1e AD&amp;D M-U wrong (ei, &quot;I only had 1 h.p., and 1 1st level spell, and nothing to do but throw an occasional dart.&quot;)&nbsp;&nbsp; By 5th level, your fighter could have more hit points than you'd ever have as a straight M-U.&nbsp;&nbsp; You could be specialized in dart (which was utterly broken to begin with), and you had a chance to pick up some wands and hopefully some bracers before attempting your run as a M-U.&nbsp; Once you hit 5th fighter/5th M-U, you had fireball and could throw darts like a boss, and enough hit points that you weren't going to die from one hit by a giant, or die even if you passed your saving throw on a breath weapon or lightning bolt.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7187211, member: 4937"] I've seen the stats for Gygax's PC fighter, and his points at 12th level are in that range. Average hit points for a 9th level fighter with 18 Con at 9th level is 86, and you'll hit 90 a few levels after that. Basically, any fighter-subclass with good Con could expect to get to 90 eventually, especially post Unearthed Arcana when you could Cavalier your 16's into 17's and 17's into 18's. Throw on some Full Plate for some virtual hit points, and you could be very hard to kill indeed. If you didn't have good Con, but you had good Dex, then you could build an archer build and avoid going toe to toe with the foe. A barbarian with 18 Con could reliably hit ~130 hit points at 9th level. Granted, barbarian was a really slow class to level up, and by the time you got there you'd be levels behind your peers, and barbarian wasn't considered a real power gamers build because it was only really awesome at 1st level, but that was one way to get a ton of hit points. Bards with say 16 Con can get a ton of hit points as well, because they are a dual-class (actually triple class!) that gains additional HD. M-U's hit points sucked, and they were too squishy to reliably survive bad luck, but Helldritch points us to a common workaround - take 5-7 levels of fighter, then dual-class back into Wizard. You need great stats to pull it off - basically 17+ Int, 15+ Str, and 15+ Con, but if you have that through some method (ei, method III, method V, luck, wheedling the DM, cheating), then you have a M-U that does not have that problem everyone complains about playing a 1e AD&D M-U wrong (ei, "I only had 1 h.p., and 1 1st level spell, and nothing to do but throw an occasional dart.") By 5th level, your fighter could have more hit points than you'd ever have as a straight M-U. You could be specialized in dart (which was utterly broken to begin with), and you had a chance to pick up some wands and hopefully some bracers before attempting your run as a M-U. Once you hit 5th fighter/5th M-U, you had fireball and could throw darts like a boss, and enough hit points that you weren't going to die from one hit by a giant, or die even if you passed your saving throw on a breath weapon or lightning bolt. [/QUOTE]

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