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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Helldritch" data-source="post: 7187746" data-attributes="member: 6855114">@<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=4937" target="_blank">Celebrim</a>1) I played mostly AD&D from 1981 up to 1993. I was strongly against 2ed as it was not bringing anything that should have been brought. I was quite a harsh DM. I have  never been afraid to TPK, and I am still not afraid to do it. Most group don't go past level 9. But those that do...I've had quite a few of my players that took first place in tournament play in my area. Once in a tournament, the top 4 places were held by players of mine. The people in charge even asked me to show them how I was DMing. I obliged them and gave them one of my pet module.It is not because my experience is different from yours that it is not a good one. What is in there is there to be used. Maybe your players were not going that high. But most campaings were not going as high for me too. But those that did... Boy they did. In OD&D, my first gaming group rose to level 36 up to Temporal 4th. Remember that in those strange times, gold was worth experience. 1 for 1...2) Magic item creation was ridiculously easy. Want a +3 sword? Fine. Magic weapon, permanency and voilà. You got it. Anything above +3 was a bit harder. That is why you needed special metal that were already considered magical in nature and the receipe that were going to help you create one. Ho and what was a single point of constitution when you could previously clone yourself a body without the loss of constitution that could happened? And restoration was there to give that point back to you. Or, in last resort, a wish.Once you got to level 12 and up, making magic was almost a laugh. The higher you got in level, the easier it was getting. When they brought in the cost in experience to create one, that put a real stop (well, more or less depending on how you viewed thing). And even then, there was a loop hole in 2nd edition in which the wizard could avoid paying the experience costs... (but that should be for another post...).As for building an artifact,No the players did not have that kind of power. But with legend and lore they could get their hands on the nearest copy. Wish was the mandatory way to get attribute enhancement. Magic jar into a willing host that you paid. Wish what you want, host ages instead of you. Compensate the host with a few thousand gold pieces and rince and repeat.Remember, I am not talking about the average group here. I am talking about elite power gamers that rose to rarely seen levels. I was one of them. Just DMing was a challenge in every way. I saw a single 14th level mage destroy the steading the hill giant by himself. The other players just watched him with amused smile. That mage knew what he was doing.As for my dual fighter mage. Nope, he rolled so poorly in strength that he barely qualified for dual training. I was specialized in the long sword as any other fighter of that time. I was really hoping for gloves of ogre strength. I never saw one pair near me. I switched to mage because:1) I had rolled an 18 in intelligence with a 3d6 roll.2) A role play opportunity to do so opened itself.3) I had taken care to keep some of the wizard loot for my self. The second wand of magic missile, the second wand fire, an extra pair of bracers of ac 5. etc...As for the treasures...If you follow the strict rule yep, it can be hard, at first look.Take a sample progression.Level 1-4 Rahasia then Horror on the hills. or Castanamir's lost island with Castle Caldwell? Maybe Temple of elemental evil?Level 5-10 Either Scourge of the slave lords, or Desert of desolation?Level 10-14 Why not take GDQ 1-7?Right there you have more magical items than a single group can hope for. In fact, you can equip more that 3 different groups with what you will find in magic items in there. You even have a girdle of giant strength, a pair of gloves of ogre's strength and the famous dwarven throwing hammer. Should I add more? And if your players started with homlett in the temple of elemental evil, they have a frost brand, and a flame blade in there too... If you expand the nodes and fill them with the treasure they propose, it can become quite ridiculous. Yep, magic finding was not at its lowest.As for your experience, I have no doubt that it was a great one. But from 1981 to 1986, I was playing 5 to 7 times a week with sessions ranging from 4 to 8 hours or more each. I was playing with many different groups. Most groups were lasting but a few months and would go on by themselves as I was introducing them to the hobby and I was training their DM. They were replaced almost immediately by an other group for an introduction into the hobby and training of their DM. I was really active in our equivalent of the YMCA in our region. That is why I have had the chance to play that much and to have so many different players. Now, I restrict my self to two groups, family and work makes up for a hard schedule. One meet on a weekly schedule, the other we play once or twice a month.From 1986 to 1990 I had only two groups. One met for 2 to 3 times a week and the other was as today, once or twice per month. The group that was meeting for 2 to 3 times played the equivalent of 8 to 12 years in those four years. So yes, These levels could be attained back then. But it took time and dedication. Maybe this little historic of my past gives you an insight of what I am.</blockquote>

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