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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5758531" data-attributes="member: 2011">This is mostly where I am coming from.I want plausibility in my fantasy games and I don't want a bunch of stupid feats and powers and such, just because the game designers didn't actually sit down and design the core math of the framework correctly.For example, the Melee Training feat only exists because some character concepts cannot do something as simple as a Melee Basic Attack (read OA). At first level, the strongest PC is +6 to hit and +6 damage compared to the weakest, but at level 30, it's +10 to hit and +10 damage (without other stuff added in).On a D20, these numbers are just too far apart, so the math has to be fixed with a feat.I also have problems with PCs swinging melee weapons with Con or Cha. Int and Wis are quasi-ok, but Con and Cha just bug the heck out of me.I have stamina, so I hit you easier and harder. WT???I also have issue with the fact that the scaling of some powers tends to be based merely on the damage or number of foes attacked and not necessarily on the strength of the effect or condition riders.6 square Teleport, for example, should be ranked: 6 square Move, 6 square Shift, 6 square Fly, 6 square Teleport in order of utility. Instead, Teleport gets handed out at very low level with Encounter powers and even quasi-At Will abilities. Shifting is better than normal movement because it does not provoke OAs. Flying is better than Shifting because although it provokes, it allows the PC to go to hard or even impossible locations, and Teleport is better than either Shift or Fly because it has the benefits of both other effects.I personally think that 4E is too much of a smorgasbord of conditions and effects. I would prefer it to be more plausible with very well defined meta-rules as to which levels each power source can acquire which effects and conditions along with a detailed ranking system for all effects and conditions.If a set of metarules like this existed, there would be very little in the way of "these 3 powers are great at level 7 for a Fighter, but these 4 are only ok, and these 3 totally suck and you should never take them". I do not see real balance between the best and worst powers at each level because there are no metarules about how to balance powers.Powers are designed based on what some designer thinks is cool, not based on what some designer thinks is cool within a rigid framework of options at a given level/power source/role.I also think that power source should be more important and role should be less important. For example, the Martial power source should do a lot of actual damage (and take less damage), regardless of role within the class. Martial Defenders should often do as much damage as Strikers do in other power sources (strikers in other power sources should do decent damage, but should also throw out more effects/conditions). But, Martial PCs should not be able to heal, go invisible, or do many of the other cool effects until Epic level and they shouldn't be able to fly or teleport at all. There should be metarules that do not get broken.If a Martial PC wants to heal, he should require magic items, especially at Heroic and Paragon level. Healing should mostly be the realm of the Divine and Primal power sources, not the Martial, Arcane, or Psionic power sources.My definition of plausibility is not one of whether PCs can shoot fire out of their hands. My definition of plausibility is one of whether certain PC concepts (read classes) can shoot fire out of their hands (or heal, or teleport, or fly, or go invisible, or hide). The distinction between classes in D&D is often blurred where it should be more sharply defined.If your PC is a mental PC that uses Charisma to shoot psychic damage at foes, you shouldn't be able to use Charisma to swing a weapon. Instead, you should use Str or Dex and the difference between your ability to swing a weapon should be less than someone else's and your damage should be seriously less, but the delta on the math shouldn't be so huge. Part of this huge math delta is the fact that ability scores can change. There is no need for that to occur. It's just a rule and even a rule that didn't exist in many earlier versions of the game.And the entire concept of elemental magic weapons combining with certain elemental magic feats to gain uber damage is lame. The elemental feats should only work with elemental powers and PCs from a different power source that do not have elemental powers should be left out in the cold for these types of combinations.</blockquote>

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