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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Argyle King" data-source="post: 5762682" data-attributes="member: 58416">I've seen Krull.  Good movie.Though what I'm trying to say is that -for me- to enjoy 4th Edition more easily, I've found that it's easier for me to change my vision and change the style I want to portray than it is for me to bend the game to the vision and style I would normally want otherwise.  @ KarinsDadI have to somewhat disagree with a few of your posts.  While 4th Edition epic PCs may not have some of the tricks of their 3rd Edition counterparts, I believe that 4th Edition PCs in general are more powerful when compared to the 4th Edition world around them versus the power level of a 3rd Edition PC versus the world around them.  It only gets more exaggerated as the levels increase.  In a different thread a few weeks ago, I talked about how the most recent game in which I was a player concluded with the group of PCs at level 30 completely obliterating what the GM designed to be a level 37 encounter; it wasn't even close.  In fact, the battle was so lopsided, that the GM of that game has said he doesn't want to GM anymore for a while.  This surprised me because he's by far the most pro-4th Edition member of the Saturday group.He bumped it up to what the encounter guidelines said was a lvl 37 encounter based on XP budget because -after seeing what we had done to pretty much every other battle during the campaign- he wanted the end fight of epic tier to be... well... epic.  He did not want it to be a cakewalk.  After upping it to 37, he also then doubled the HP of the (level 34) BBEG to ensure that the BBEG might survive for more than a round.  He also had a set of Gauntlet style monster minion generators which required a skill challenge to shut down.  He also made interesting use of terrain.  He did what the book says you should do for an interesting and challenging encounter (and then boosted it in hopes of it lasting more than a round or two.)I think the whole combat took 4-5 rounds.  This was with not all of the PCs even trying.  As a player, I felt kind of bad about what my character was capable of doing.  I did not want to ruin the encounter for the GM>  So, being that my character was also the skill monkey of the group, I spent my time doing the skill challenge.  I did not use anything I had available to help boost the group's output.  (My character was a bard; while I did not say so in other threads, my character is the same bard who counted as all races -epic destiny from Primal Power- and virtually* all classes.)* I did a lot of multiclassing.  As a metagame goal to challenge myself, I wanted to see how many races and classes I could collect.Oh, I also forgot to mention that the GM houseruled that the BBEG would get multiple initiatives during the combat.Result?  It was a slaughter; not even close.  I think there was a moment in the first round when one of the PCs got in trouble due to a string of lucky rolls by the GM, but that was it.  With only about half (another character, the party sorcerer helped me with the skill challenge for the same reason) of the party engaging a fight which was (by the book) 7 levels higher than we were, the PCs squashed the other side.To bring this back on topic, that's one of the issues I have with 4th Edition's 'realism.'  After seeing the PCs' abilities compared to the abilities of what the fiction says are some of the most horrid and feared creatures throughout the land, it's difficult for me to take that fiction seriously.  What was going on with the game mechanics and what the fiction & 'reality' of the game world were saying was going on didn't match up.  That's a portion of the reason why I chose to change the fiction and paint it differently in my game.I've also done some work to rewrite XP charts, skill challenge DCs, how Elites work, and how Solos work as well.  I'm also somewhat liberal about giving out benefits based on back stories; for example, the party fighter in the game I'm running said he was part of the military leadership where he was from, so I granted him a few warlord features.  So far, the changes I've made in how I view the game as well as the overhaul I've given to some areas of the game itself have allowed me to have a better experience with 4th Edition.</blockquote>

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