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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5762858" data-attributes="member: 2011">That's a bit of a stretch.The Warden is from the primal power source and uses evocations. So does the Barbarian.Neither of them would be considered primal spell casters. For example, I don't know of anyone who thinks that a Barbarian casts spells.You seem to be confusing spell caster with someone who has supernatural powers. These classes don't use implements, they use melee weapons. They are able to access forces and spirits of nature, but it's nowhere near what one would normally and traditionally consider spell casting. With that type of definition, everyone would be a spell caster who isn't in the Martial Power Source and even classes in the Martial Power Source could be considered spell casters.Druids and Shamans? Yes, people could consider them primal spellcasters because they can or do use implements.Barbarians, Seekers, and Wardens are not what one would consider spell casters, even though they augment normal abilities with primal power.This lack of "the same language" used is a bit of an issue for the flavor of 4E. In 1E to 3.5, Druids and Clerics did "cast spells". In 4E, the traditional spell caster is now more or less relegated to someone using an implement and the traditional melee character is now relegated to someone using a weapon. There really is no other definitions in 4E because the power source definitions are somewhat nebulous and murky (as is the smorgasbord of what is allowed within those power sources).Granted, there are always the exceptions like the Swordmage who is considered using an implement when fighting with a weapon. He too is not often considered to be casting spells per se, but some of his powers are spell-like. The same applies to Paladins who have the ability to fire off divine energy at range.Wardens have some close burst and clost blast type of effects, then again so do Barbarians.This is the issue that I brought up earlier. Every class feels a bit like a spell caster in some ways. But there aren't definitions of Non-spell Caster, Partial Spell Caster, Spell Caster in 4E.</blockquote>

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