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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5765917" data-attributes="member: 2011">To me, if you are using a power to force move someone somewhere into a hazard, for the most part this is an example of standard tactics. It's not even up to the level of 'clever tactics'. Half of the ones in Hussar's list are just 'force move the guy somewhere hazardous'.To me, there are probably in order of cleverness: 'standard tactics', 'clever tactics' and 'out of the box thinking', and pushing foes into hazards almost always falls into the first category. It's 4E 101.From Hussar's list:#1 shouldn't be on the list. It's just a player doing something that the DM may or may not have found amusing enough to do something with, but a tactic that shouldn't necessary work at all or result in any change in the scenario at all. A DM could also just look at the player with a raised eyebrow, wondering what that player was smoking that morning.#2 is standard force movement tactic.#3 was probably somewhere between 'clever tactics' and 'out of the box thinking' and is the best of the lot, but still something that I have seen done quite a few times in the past.#4 is probably at the 'standard atypical but fairly obvious tactics' level. Maybe at the level of 'clever tactics', but not really.#5 is standard force movement tactic.#6 is standard force movement tactic.#7 is standard force movement tactic.#8 I cannot tell. Why not just pull out weapons and smack the nonlethal crap out of the foes and not limit yourself to lesser weapons? If weapons were not available or shouldn't be used, then these are 'standard not using weapons tactics'.Overall, I wasn't overly impressed with his list and didn't really see much 'out of the box' thinking that hadn't been done in lots of 4E encounters that I've seen.And this might be where he and I differ. I consider 'out of the box' thinking to be things like in 2E where a Gnome PC cast Darkness 3 feet off the ground and then went around attacking his foes with no vision penalties. The medium sized monsters couldn't see and didn't know that below them, vision was just fine until real late in the encounter and then they got a different penalty for crouching down below the darkness once they figured it out. The PC was able to hold off an entire room of monsters while the rest of the party was fighting nearby.</blockquote>

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