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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5766617" data-attributes="member: 2011">I only made a big hash of a player anticipating the tactics of the monsters and avoiding them by doing what would normally be considered a subpar tactic. That's what I find clever. In the vast majority of circumstances, it doesn't matter too much which square a PC is in. As a DM, if I wanted to unload on that PC, I typically can and there's not much the players can do to stop it (with the exception of any marked monsters or monsters that someone has put some level of control over). But if a player can position his PC (and/or other PCs in the case of a Leader who can move fellow PCs) in such a way as to limit my options as a DM, I consider that player to be doing something clever.Granted, if the player uses the same tactic over and over again, then it starts going from the realm of being a clever tactic to a standard tactic for that player and that group. But in the case of the &quot;does not go into flank&quot; example, truly preventing the monsters from unloading on any single PC is something that is fairly rare as an option. So when a player sees and uses that option, he's being clever because it is something that rarely is possible in an encounter, but he was heads up enough to take advantage of it.Forty years ago, it was clever for mankind to go to the moon. Four hundreds years from now, it might be considered as clever as getting on a bus is today. Just like pushing a foe off a cliff in 1E was clever, but pushing a foe off a cliff in 4E isn't.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 5766617, member: 2011"] I only made a big hash of a player anticipating the tactics of the monsters and avoiding them by doing what would normally be considered a subpar tactic. That's what I find clever. In the vast majority of circumstances, it doesn't matter too much which square a PC is in. As a DM, if I wanted to unload on that PC, I typically can and there's not much the players can do to stop it (with the exception of any marked monsters or monsters that someone has put some level of control over). But if a player can position his PC (and/or other PCs in the case of a Leader who can move fellow PCs) in such a way as to limit my options as a DM, I consider that player to be doing something clever. Granted, if the player uses the same tactic over and over again, then it starts going from the realm of being a clever tactic to a standard tactic for that player and that group. But in the case of the "does not go into flank" example, truly preventing the monsters from unloading on any single PC is something that is fairly rare as an option. So when a player sees and uses that option, he's being clever because it is something that rarely is possible in an encounter, but he was heads up enough to take advantage of it. Forty years ago, it was clever for mankind to go to the moon. Four hundreds years from now, it might be considered as clever as getting on a bus is today. Just like pushing a foe off a cliff in 1E was clever, but pushing a foe off a cliff in 4E isn't. [/QUOTE]

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