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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5770135" data-attributes="member: 22779">KarinsDad - again, I think you're applying a double standard.If doing X is clever, it's always clever, whether or not the rules support it.&nbsp; If moving to an advantageous position is clever, it's not suddenly not clever just because the rules give specific mechanics governing that movement.Like you said, it's clever to push someone off a cliff in AD&amp;D, but not in 4e.&nbsp; Thus, the fact that you see less &quot;clever&quot; play in 4e is simply the result of more comprehensive mechanics, not any lack in the players.&nbsp; What was once considered clever has become &quot;4e 101&quot;.&nbsp; So, again, the fact that you see less &quot;clever&quot; play actually has more to do with the fact that you are setting the bar continuously higher than anything else.Or, to put it another way, of course you only see players using the powers on their sheets.&nbsp; That sheet gives them so many more options than it ever did in any other edition other than casters possibly.&nbsp; A 10th level PC in 4e has about a dozen viable options right there on his character sheet in any given round.&nbsp; It's not that people think less outside the box, it's that the box has gotten a hell of a lot bigger.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5770135, member: 22779"] KarinsDad - again, I think you're applying a double standard. If doing X is clever, it's always clever, whether or not the rules support it. If moving to an advantageous position is clever, it's not suddenly not clever just because the rules give specific mechanics governing that movement. Like you said, it's clever to push someone off a cliff in AD&D, but not in 4e. Thus, the fact that you see less "clever" play in 4e is simply the result of more comprehensive mechanics, not any lack in the players. What was once considered clever has become "4e 101". So, again, the fact that you see less "clever" play actually has more to do with the fact that you are setting the bar continuously higher than anything else. Or, to put it another way, of course you only see players using the powers on their sheets. That sheet gives them so many more options than it ever did in any other edition other than casters possibly. A 10th level PC in 4e has about a dozen viable options right there on his character sheet in any given round. It's not that people think less outside the box, it's that the box has gotten a hell of a lot bigger. [/QUOTE]

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