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<blockquote data-quote="Yaarel" data-source="post: 9269680" data-attributes="member: 58172"><p>This is the weak part of your argument. You claim combat encounters are the main way to deplete resources, and therefore imply that only combat encounters matter and only combat encounters need to be attended to.</p><p></p><p></p><p>However, if players are leveling up by means of social encounters, then it doesnt matter if combat resources are being depleted or not. They remain unused or trivial. Relatedly, combat resources are combat resources, they dont need to be depleted if players are leveling up without them by various noncombat encounters. Combat resources become irrelevant.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Your next concern I agree with. It is the number of combat encounters that matters when addressing the class balance − at combat.</p><p></p><p>The above I agree with. The number of encounters and the length of each encounter matter when calculating the average combat balance between class.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, the DM needs to adjudicated the level of the combat threat against the party. It is important to mix the levels of combat threats. I will discuss why below.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure. At the same time, I feel even a trivial encounter is worth ½ encounter − even if just for the sake of how much time it takes to play the game. Meanwhile, if a near-TPK is worth 2 encounters, what is the point of awarding 3 encounters if no survives to receive it. Plus at certain point, they really do need to flee and might be foolish if they dont do it, unless perhaps there is some greater than life ethics to remain in a doomed fight.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I wish every caster in 5e was using the Warlock schedule of fewer spells at a time that refresh per rest. At that point, the Fighter too has features that are per rest. It suddenly becomes easy to balance everything.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Back to the earlier point. I agree, counting encounters is how to balance combat when comparing classes. However, whether this matters or not changes.</p><p></p><p>We are at a level that requires 15 encounters to advance to the next level. Compare the possibilities.</p><p>• 4 trivial combat encounters and 13 noncombat encounters</p><p>• 8 solid combat encounters and 7 noncombat encounters</p><p>• 15 solid combat encounters</p><p></p><p>The first possibility doesnt care about combat. These are old school "roleplayers" who enjoy the method acting, the puzzlers, the ones working on their ambitious projects, the gameworld immersion. For them, counting the encounters is the best, because they play D&D the way they enjoy it, and level up at a satisfying pace, at the same rate as combat players.</p><p></p><p>The midway possibility is the concern. It depends how the noncombat encounters intersperse. Say 4 solid combat encounters happen before the players refresh. Likely the per day casters are unloading their heavy magic and shining, while the Fighters are fresh and tough but dont get to show off their staying power. Even so, this is how 2014 is now already. Meanwhile all the players are participating in meaningful and rewarding noncombat encounters, and shining variously in noncombat ways. So even here there is an improvement.</p><p></p><p>In the total combat game, counting 15 encounters works better than ever. The math is perfect. The theoretical balance is actualizing.</p><p></p><p></p><p>In every possibility, counting encounters works better and in many cases perfectly. As I mentioned, I have been counting encounters for a while. It works well. I have seen no problems. All players have chance to shine (often by saving each other).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Even in the midway possibility, it matters when there is a combat encounter that is "too" powerful, that the players should run from. When combated, these too-tough threats tend to last many rounds before the players realize the predicament they are in. The per-day casters tend to unload their best spells. The combat resources deplete. The Fighters are starting to shine. Sometimes the players surprise, by taking out the threat. Then they really deserve the extra encounter. What happens next is the combat encounter after this. Then the casters enter it vulnerably dealing cantrips without heavy magic. The Fighters are shining. And this is happening within only three or four combat encounters.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Counting encounters helps in many ways, and is better than xp and milestones,.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Yaarel, post: 9269680, member: 58172"] This is the weak part of your argument. You claim combat encounters are the main way to deplete resources, and therefore imply that only combat encounters matter and only combat encounters need to be attended to. However, if players are leveling up by means of social encounters, then it doesnt matter if combat resources are being depleted or not. They remain unused or trivial. Relatedly, combat resources are combat resources, they dont need to be depleted if players are leveling up without them by various noncombat encounters. Combat resources become irrelevant. Your next concern I agree with. It is the number of combat encounters that matters when addressing the class balance − at combat. The above I agree with. The number of encounters and the length of each encounter matter when calculating the average combat balance between class. Yes, the DM needs to adjudicated the level of the combat threat against the party. It is important to mix the levels of combat threats. I will discuss why below. Sure. At the same time, I feel even a trivial encounter is worth ½ encounter − even if just for the sake of how much time it takes to play the game. Meanwhile, if a near-TPK is worth 2 encounters, what is the point of awarding 3 encounters if no survives to receive it. Plus at certain point, they really do need to flee and might be foolish if they dont do it, unless perhaps there is some greater than life ethics to remain in a doomed fight. I wish every caster in 5e was using the Warlock schedule of fewer spells at a time that refresh per rest. At that point, the Fighter too has features that are per rest. It suddenly becomes easy to balance everything. Back to the earlier point. I agree, counting encounters is how to balance combat when comparing classes. However, whether this matters or not changes. We are at a level that requires 15 encounters to advance to the next level. Compare the possibilities. • 4 trivial combat encounters and 13 noncombat encounters • 8 solid combat encounters and 7 noncombat encounters • 15 solid combat encounters The first possibility doesnt care about combat. These are old school "roleplayers" who enjoy the method acting, the puzzlers, the ones working on their ambitious projects, the gameworld immersion. For them, counting the encounters is the best, because they play D&D the way they enjoy it, and level up at a satisfying pace, at the same rate as combat players. The midway possibility is the concern. It depends how the noncombat encounters intersperse. Say 4 solid combat encounters happen before the players refresh. Likely the per day casters are unloading their heavy magic and shining, while the Fighters are fresh and tough but dont get to show off their staying power. Even so, this is how 2014 is now already. Meanwhile all the players are participating in meaningful and rewarding noncombat encounters, and shining variously in noncombat ways. So even here there is an improvement. In the total combat game, counting 15 encounters works better than ever. The math is perfect. The theoretical balance is actualizing. In every possibility, counting encounters works better and in many cases perfectly. As I mentioned, I have been counting encounters for a while. It works well. I have seen no problems. All players have chance to shine (often by saving each other). Even in the midway possibility, it matters when there is a combat encounter that is "too" powerful, that the players should run from. When combated, these too-tough threats tend to last many rounds before the players realize the predicament they are in. The per-day casters tend to unload their best spells. The combat resources deplete. The Fighters are starting to shine. Sometimes the players surprise, by taking out the threat. Then they really deserve the extra encounter. What happens next is the combat encounter after this. Then the casters enter it vulnerably dealing cantrips without heavy magic. The Fighters are shining. And this is happening within only three or four combat encounters. Counting encounters helps in many ways, and is better than xp and milestones,. [/QUOTE]
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