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Message: <blockquote data-quote="mkletch" data-source="post: 397871" data-attributes="member: 3396">I did address both sides in my first post.  I agree, it is not rules-lawyering to play by the rules.  But it is rules-lawyering to use the rules to prevent, inhibit or twist the plot or story or situation into something not originally intended.  There is a plot to an adventure, right?  There is roleplaying, story, some timy shred of reality?  Heck, even Diablo had a plot.I don't think there is anything wrong with using awareness; it is the position that I support.  It would, theoretically, be overruled by the rules text and examples presented in the DMG.The spouse of the fighter/rogue in our campaign feels that she is being cheated of possible sneak-attacks, because opponents who have been aware for several rounds (and not acted against us, but still have acted) are not flat-footed at the beginning of combat.  If the thing had the option of initiating combat, then it should not be flat-footed, IMO.  The issue is after the initiative roll.  If it has not acted after the initiative roll, theoretically it is flat-footed, regardless of what happened before the roll.  Read my previous post and the example of PC and orcs separated by a door on page 61 of the DMG.  The example can be extended only slightly to produce an absurd result.  Roleplaying and story refereeing must then make up for it, IMO, and that is the responsibility of the DM.  Others may not agree, and say that combat rules trump any other aspect of the game.If you agree that, if the initiative sequence produces an absurd result it should be used anyway, only then should you have selected the first option in this poll.  If something is completely whacked, and for example, a fully prepared and aware opponent loses initiative and dies before it can act, then you play "by the rules" as they are explicitly set out in the PH and DMG.We tweak it a little, and only a little, and only when it makes sense, and all but one person agrees (even the player of the rogue/fighter agrees).  Going against that is rules-lawyering...-Fletch!</blockquote>

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