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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8219240" data-attributes="member: 16814">My mileage does, extensively.&nbsp; I'll tentatively agree that what most consider &quot;ad-libbed&quot; may feel shallow, but this is largely due to the fact that it occurs in game systems that don't have tools to support it very well.&nbsp; D&amp;D is one such.&nbsp; Still, my Sigil campaign had large sections discovered in play, and it had a great deal of depth to it.Of course the GM has to ad-lib some things, but if you're preference is to minimize this, you should really ask what that achieves in play -- how does it support what you want.&nbsp; The &quot;depth&quot; argument is weak -- this is often trotted out but it's not every strongly presented.&nbsp; [USER=29398]@Lanefan[/USER] has done the best job I've seen, and what that boils down to is a GM's desire to plant lots of extra details to essentially chaff player skilled play -- it's an additional layer of challenge to skilled play.I wasn't painting your playstyle as anything.&nbsp;&nbsp; If anything I was pointing to how preferring a GM heavy prep in a sandbox world offsets the opportunity for Force.&nbsp; Force isn't a negative thing, in my opinion, but rather something that's a tool in the box -- it can be abused like any other.&nbsp; Heck, if you're dealing with encounters keyed to the players, that's using Force -- the GM is using their authority to generate a preferred outcome regardless of the player choices, in this case a balanced encounter.100% agree.And disagree -- I think this is actually impossible, and what's considered this is more a specified approach as to how you're expected to do this.&nbsp; Like pretending that your character doesn't know fire hurts trolls -- when is it okay to stop pretending you don't know this?&nbsp; I mean, your actions are already impacted by doing so -- there's never going to be that spontaneous &quot;I hit it with a torch&quot; that a newbie could do, because it'll be labeled, so play is already distorted.&nbsp; I think that persisting in believing you can actually separate these things prevents understanding what it is you actually do want out of play and doing things to get that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8219240, member: 16814"] My mileage does, extensively. I'll tentatively agree that what most consider "ad-libbed" may feel shallow, but this is largely due to the fact that it occurs in game systems that don't have tools to support it very well. D&D is one such. Still, my Sigil campaign had large sections discovered in play, and it had a great deal of depth to it. Of course the GM has to ad-lib some things, but if you're preference is to minimize this, you should really ask what that achieves in play -- how does it support what you want. The "depth" argument is weak -- this is often trotted out but it's not every strongly presented. [USER=29398]@Lanefan[/USER] has done the best job I've seen, and what that boils down to is a GM's desire to plant lots of extra details to essentially chaff player skilled play -- it's an additional layer of challenge to skilled play. I wasn't painting your playstyle as anything. If anything I was pointing to how preferring a GM heavy prep in a sandbox world offsets the opportunity for Force. Force isn't a negative thing, in my opinion, but rather something that's a tool in the box -- it can be abused like any other. Heck, if you're dealing with encounters keyed to the players, that's using Force -- the GM is using their authority to generate a preferred outcome regardless of the player choices, in this case a balanced encounter. 100% agree. And disagree -- I think this is actually impossible, and what's considered this is more a specified approach as to how you're expected to do this. Like pretending that your character doesn't know fire hurts trolls -- when is it okay to stop pretending you don't know this? I mean, your actions are already impacted by doing so -- there's never going to be that spontaneous "I hit it with a torch" that a newbie could do, because it'll be labeled, so play is already distorted. I think that persisting in believing you can actually separate these things prevents understanding what it is you actually do want out of play and doing things to get that. [/QUOTE]

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