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Do You Prefer Sandbox or Party Level Areas In Your Game World?
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8228590" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>Good stuff S'mon. I'm going to disagree and see how you feel about the areas I disagree with. I'll just do Moldvay Dungeon Crawls for now. My thoughts on the issues (if you want to enumerate your answers the same for references, that would be awesome):</p><p></p><p>1) The Exploration action economy in 5e is much more extreme than in 5e. Your basic dungeon map and explore rate in 5e is 300 SF/Min vs 120 SF/10 Min in MB. That basic unit incompatibility is a massive change and has a lot of downstream consequences on the scaling of environs, the base competency of characters vs the obstacle course, and trying to rejigger Wandering Monster Clock et al (and having it make sense), and the Rest Cycle (having to Rest 1/6 Exploration Turns makes no sense when a Turn is 1 Minute vs 10). </p><p></p><p>Even if you scale everything up by 10 and work off the 10 Min, you're still mapping/exploring at a much higher clip in 5e. And THEN you have to rejigger all of the player and equipment effects that are (presumably) balanced around/integrated with the 1 Min turn.</p><p></p><p>These differences have to be addressed.</p><p></p><p>2) The action resolution systems are significantly incompatible and this goes both into PC build and core resolution. Basic competency for listening/searching (etc) is 16.7 and 33.5 % in MB and has niche protection breadth limitations vs a massive competency spoke on both axis in 5e (you're succeeding at significantly higher rate in 5e and much more broadly competent). Then you have Passive Perception which is an action economy compatibility problem between the two (it would have to be stripped out). </p><p></p><p>These differences have to be addressed.</p><p></p><p>3) Now you have to create a Wandering Monster Clock and figure out a Rest Cycle (and its impact - Fatigue?) whole cloth and integrate it with the 1 Min Turn (and have it make sense). You've got to do the same with Reaction and Morale. You've got a Light problem with Lanterns lasting 1.5 * as long (and this profoundly being amplified by the movement discrepancies) and Cantrips that cast Light at-will. You also have other exploration Cantrips at-will like Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, Guidance, Resistance, Friends. </p><p></p><p>These differences need to be addressed.</p><p></p><p>4) You've got a much increased spell loadout (particularly amplified by Cantrips and Rituals) and just more broad competency and high-end competency built into PCs even at the lowest of levels. Forget about HP and combat. Exploration competency has increased significantly.</p><p></p><p>These differences need to be addressed.</p><p></p><p>5) XP for Gold has to be built from the ground up. I'm pretty sure (though I can't remember off of the top of my head) Encumbrance is considerably less an issue in 5e than in MB. These things cut into the heart of the risk: reward aspect of delving.</p><p></p><p>These differences need to be addressed.</p><p></p><p>6) Restoring and protecting against HP loss is just much easier in 5e (even if you fiddle with the Short/Long Rest and HD Recovery mechanics significantly). Characters are just much more resourceful and capable (particularly low level spellcasters); deeper pool of resources, more potent resources, better intraparty synergy to force-multiply team PC (even at the lowest of levels). </p><p></p><p>These differences need to be addressed.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8228590, member: 6696971"] Good stuff S'mon. I'm going to disagree and see how you feel about the areas I disagree with. I'll just do Moldvay Dungeon Crawls for now. My thoughts on the issues (if you want to enumerate your answers the same for references, that would be awesome): 1) The Exploration action economy in 5e is much more extreme than in 5e. Your basic dungeon map and explore rate in 5e is 300 SF/Min vs 120 SF/10 Min in MB. That basic unit incompatibility is a massive change and has a lot of downstream consequences on the scaling of environs, the base competency of characters vs the obstacle course, and trying to rejigger Wandering Monster Clock et al (and having it make sense), and the Rest Cycle (having to Rest 1/6 Exploration Turns makes no sense when a Turn is 1 Minute vs 10). Even if you scale everything up by 10 and work off the 10 Min, you're still mapping/exploring at a much higher clip in 5e. And THEN you have to rejigger all of the player and equipment effects that are (presumably) balanced around/integrated with the 1 Min turn. These differences have to be addressed. 2) The action resolution systems are significantly incompatible and this goes both into PC build and core resolution. Basic competency for listening/searching (etc) is 16.7 and 33.5 % in MB and has niche protection breadth limitations vs a massive competency spoke on both axis in 5e (you're succeeding at significantly higher rate in 5e and much more broadly competent). Then you have Passive Perception which is an action economy compatibility problem between the two (it would have to be stripped out). These differences have to be addressed. 3) Now you have to create a Wandering Monster Clock and figure out a Rest Cycle (and its impact - Fatigue?) whole cloth and integrate it with the 1 Min Turn (and have it make sense). You've got to do the same with Reaction and Morale. You've got a Light problem with Lanterns lasting 1.5 * as long (and this profoundly being amplified by the movement discrepancies) and Cantrips that cast Light at-will. You also have other exploration Cantrips at-will like Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, Guidance, Resistance, Friends. These differences need to be addressed. 4) You've got a much increased spell loadout (particularly amplified by Cantrips and Rituals) and just more broad competency and high-end competency built into PCs even at the lowest of levels. Forget about HP and combat. Exploration competency has increased significantly. These differences need to be addressed. 5) XP for Gold has to be built from the ground up. I'm pretty sure (though I can't remember off of the top of my head) Encumbrance is considerably less an issue in 5e than in MB. These things cut into the heart of the risk: reward aspect of delving. These differences need to be addressed. 6) Restoring and protecting against HP loss is just much easier in 5e (even if you fiddle with the Short/Long Rest and HD Recovery mechanics significantly). Characters are just much more resourceful and capable (particularly low level spellcasters); deeper pool of resources, more potent resources, better intraparty synergy to force-multiply team PC (even at the lowest of levels). These differences need to be addressed. [/QUOTE]
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