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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8230934" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>Don't want to get too deeply into the weeds here and devote heavy word-count to this just yet, but let me just say this is either (a) a bit of a bizarre interpretation (more on that below) or (b) further evidence of the divide between 5e and MB (more on that below):</p><p></p><p>On (a):</p><p></p><p>Both Moldvay Basic and 1e's Dungeon Movement Rules (not the PC Movement Rate) are either (i) conjoined with exploration action economy (Moldvay's Dungeon Movement Rules abstract standard exploration and roll it into that encoded interval which then interacts with the rest of the Delving system) or (ii) provide discrete, table-facing values for individual exploration moves for a Delving Action Economy (1e).</p><p></p><p>Why in the world would a D&D include some kind of separate Dungeon Movement Rules if they don't either go the Moldvay route (i) - preferable to me - or go the 1e route (ii)? That makes no sense from a design perspective.</p><p></p><p>* You already have PC Movement Rate embedded in the PC rules.</p><p></p><p>* Why would anyone need a discrete (separate from PC Movement Rate) "stroll through the dungeon corridor/walk the tomb's foyer" value that neither embeds/abstracts exploration (as Moldvay) or discretizes individual exploration moves (as 1e)?</p><p></p><p>I can't fathom the use and the uselessness in superfluous ink/page space (which could either truncate the rules text to make it more light or be spent on something of actual use).</p><p></p><p>Overland Movement Rate during an actual Journey phase of gameplay? Absolutely makes sense. But Delving is not Journeying (neither mechanically nor as a matter of fiction).</p><p></p><p>On (b):</p><p></p><p>Lets just go ahead and say that the 5e Dungeon Movement rules are completely detached from exploration moves. Its some kind of odd Journey unit (in a Dungeon) rather than an actual (useful) Delving unit.</p><p></p><p>If that is indeed the case, its not clear to me whether extreme unit disparity and incongruency (yet still conceptually working within the same space) makes 5e less "Moldvay-friendly" or if occupying an entirely difference conceptual space (whereby one has a quantitative and encoded Delving Unit of Movement where Exploration is abstracted/folded within and then integrated with all of the rest of the Delving system in Moldvay....vs the other that apparently doesn't encode these things but rather leaves it entirely to GM discretion and/or negotiation) makes it less "Moldvay-friendly!"</p><p></p><p>From an engineering/design perspective, its really just a question of how wobbly the encoding is (either internally or compared to Moldvay's encoding) vs changing the entire conceptual space (no encoding) and thereby requiring the GM to entirely encode the Delving system from scratch and integrate it with the rest of the system (all of the PC build rules, the equipment rules, the Rest rules, et al).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8230934, member: 6696971"] Don't want to get too deeply into the weeds here and devote heavy word-count to this just yet, but let me just say this is either (a) a bit of a bizarre interpretation (more on that below) or (b) further evidence of the divide between 5e and MB (more on that below): On (a): Both Moldvay Basic and 1e's Dungeon Movement Rules (not the PC Movement Rate) are either (i) conjoined with exploration action economy (Moldvay's Dungeon Movement Rules abstract standard exploration and roll it into that encoded interval which then interacts with the rest of the Delving system) or (ii) provide discrete, table-facing values for individual exploration moves for a Delving Action Economy (1e). Why in the world would a D&D include some kind of separate Dungeon Movement Rules if they don't either go the Moldvay route (i) - preferable to me - or go the 1e route (ii)? That makes no sense from a design perspective. * You already have PC Movement Rate embedded in the PC rules. * Why would anyone need a discrete (separate from PC Movement Rate) "stroll through the dungeon corridor/walk the tomb's foyer" value that neither embeds/abstracts exploration (as Moldvay) or discretizes individual exploration moves (as 1e)? I can't fathom the use and the uselessness in superfluous ink/page space (which could either truncate the rules text to make it more light or be spent on something of actual use). Overland Movement Rate during an actual Journey phase of gameplay? Absolutely makes sense. But Delving is not Journeying (neither mechanically nor as a matter of fiction). On (b): Lets just go ahead and say that the 5e Dungeon Movement rules are completely detached from exploration moves. Its some kind of odd Journey unit (in a Dungeon) rather than an actual (useful) Delving unit. If that is indeed the case, its not clear to me whether extreme unit disparity and incongruency (yet still conceptually working within the same space) makes 5e less "Moldvay-friendly" or if occupying an entirely difference conceptual space (whereby one has a quantitative and encoded Delving Unit of Movement where Exploration is abstracted/folded within and then integrated with all of the rest of the Delving system in Moldvay....vs the other that apparently doesn't encode these things but rather leaves it entirely to GM discretion and/or negotiation) makes it less "Moldvay-friendly!" From an engineering/design perspective, its really just a question of how wobbly the encoding is (either internally or compared to Moldvay's encoding) vs changing the entire conceptual space (no encoding) and thereby requiring the GM to entirely encode the Delving system from scratch and integrate it with the rest of the system (all of the PC build rules, the equipment rules, the Rest rules, et al). [/QUOTE]
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