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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 8082183" data-attributes="member: 5142">Except you are essentially switching from poker to bridge when you switch between TTRPGs. Poker and bridge are both competitive card games in the same way that D&D and PbtA are both TTRPGs. But when one goes into PbtA trying to play it like D&D, then there will be a disconnect. This is because not only the differences in rules, but also differences in the meta-games between them. I have often found that one of the biggest hurdles for players switching between TTRPGs isn't just the differences of rules but also the differences in the meta-games. This is one reason why I find taking long-time players of D&D and having them play other games is fascinating, because you can see how much the meta-game surrounding D&D informs their decision-making in other games.Funny coincidence. I'm also talking about an RPG, but in which the G stands for Game. Do you think we might be talking about the same thing? Let's find out. What does the P stand for in your RPG? In mine, it stands for Playing.It amazes me how many people forget that the G in RPG stands for "game," a game with rules, mechanics, and procedures. (A game that people take way too seriously for how ridiculously low the stakes of play actually are.) The presence of an R in RPG does not somehow negate the presence of a G in RPG, particularly since the "RP" is an adjective that modifies or describes the nominal "G." An RPG is categorically always a Game. And where there's a game, there's always a meta-game. Meta-gaming involves the method of play surrounding the rules of the game that are not formally part of the rules of play. Sorry, meta-game deniers out there, but the presence of an R does not change that meta-gaming is an inherent part of play. It may be banal to point this out, but different games have different rules or otherwise they would be the same game. So differences in rules produce differences in meta-games. Some games may have more similar meta-games than others, but meta-gaming nevertheless is still a natural, if not fundamental, part of play.Different games have different rules and mechanical procedures that will impact the meta-game. League of Legends, Dota 2, and Heroes of the Storm are all MOBAs, but they have different meta-games that stem from their different mechanics and character counters. Likewise World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 2, Final Fantasy XVI, Elder Scrolls Online, and Star Wars: The Old Republic are all MMORPGs, but their different games naturally generate different meta-games as a result of their different mechanics. Sports also have meta-games, and sometimes the rules have been changed for various sports leagues in response to particular the meta-games that formed (e.g., Hack-a-Shaq).The same definitely holds true for a TTRPG. It is not somehow exceptional from other games in this regard simply because "R" stands for "role." Going from D&D to other games, such as Savage Worlds, Dungeon World, Forbidden Lands, Blades in the Dark, Fate, etc., entails players engaging different mechanics that engender different meta-games. There are even differences between editions of D&D that impact the meta-game (e.g., skill checks, rest and HP/spell recovery, concentration, Vancian vs. Neo-Vancian casting, multiclassing, hit points, grid play, distance rules, falling damage, etc.). The prevalent idea of needing a healer for the party forms part of the meta-game. And the player's knowledge of these rules most definitely impacts their roleplaying decisions as a character. While one can argue that these may represent aspects that a character could also know in-universe, let's not pretend that these do not also represent outside knowledge that inform the decision-making players make for their characters. It's not exactly rocket science why the characters of experienced players are likelier to have this in-universe knowledge than the characters of first time players: i.e., experienced players have a greater grasp of the meta-game. You can better see how ingrained that meta-game can be for longtime players of D&D, particularly of older editions, when you switch them from their edition of D&D's particular meta-game to games like Call of Cthulhu, Dungeon World, Fate, Cortex, or Blades in the Dark. Watching such players play their characters in these games as they would in D&D can be quite amusing.All this is to say that the idea that somehow player-side meta-gaming is "full stop" bad is laughable, if only because it's a natural extension of play. Want a tip on how to stop meta-gaming? The only way to rid your games of meta-gaming is to stop playing those games entirely.So maybe the problem that you are having is not with meta-gaming, which is a natural by-product of the G, but with some issue or fault with the RP aspect, keeping in mind that playing a role is done in isolation, but, rather, within the contexts of playing a role in a game.The ideal of roleplaying IMHO is not some condescendingly ONE TRUE WAY approach resting in elitist notions of playing a role to utter perfection, but, rather, the ideal of roleplaying is fun, because you know... it's a game that is meant to serve as a form of recreational entertainment for all participants for fun.</blockquote>

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