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<blockquote data-quote="swrushing" data-source="post: 2473892" data-attributes="member: 14140">non-sequitor.EXPECTING players to think, sure. I expect them to listen and analyze whats happening, to figure out clues, to catch inconsistencies, and basically to think in character during my game.That is a wholly different animal from increasing the workload/bookkeeping in chargen.I know my players can do tax audits, that doesn't mean i should require them to do them in order to play in my game.I am sorry, but do you require your players to do chargen and levelling up at the table? or are you somehow expanding &quot;chargen paperwork&quot; ala retroactive skill changes to also include all the usual puzzles clues and observations and deductions involved in actual play?it really seems like you are taking one issue, complexity of chargen and the work involved, and morphingn that point into something else.I do all that i can to simply and streamline the chargen process, to make it as quick and painless and as little WORK and as much FUN as possible while still keeping just barely enough to allow the character definition and detail needed for player character refinement. I want as little to stand between &quot;i wanna play&quot; and &quot;i get to play&quot; as possible while keeping the ability to develop interesting characters.A rule saying &quot;you get to do restroactive skill pt changes when int raises&quot; DOESN'T increase pc defininement but does increase workload. Heck, if anything it DECREASES definement since a guy with int 14 all along will no longer be different from a guy who had INT 12 and just went to int 14 at level 10.So that sort of a house rule would not immediately appeal to me, losing in what I want (definition and discrimination) and adding to what I dislike (OOC OOG workload/bookkeeping).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="swrushing, post: 2473892, member: 14140"] non-sequitor. EXPECTING players to think, sure. I expect them to listen and analyze whats happening, to figure out clues, to catch inconsistencies, and basically to think in character during my game. That is a wholly different animal from increasing the workload/bookkeeping in chargen. I know my players can do tax audits, that doesn't mean i should require them to do them in order to play in my game. I am sorry, but do you require your players to do chargen and levelling up at the table? or are you somehow expanding "chargen paperwork" ala retroactive skill changes to also include all the usual puzzles clues and observations and deductions involved in actual play? it really seems like you are taking one issue, complexity of chargen and the work involved, and morphingn that point into something else. I do all that i can to simply and streamline the chargen process, to make it as quick and painless and as little WORK and as much FUN as possible while still keeping just barely enough to allow the character definition and detail needed for player character refinement. I want as little to stand between "i wanna play" and "i get to play" as possible while keeping the ability to develop interesting characters. A rule saying "you get to do restroactive skill pt changes when int raises" DOESN'T increase pc defininement but does increase workload. Heck, if anything it DECREASES definement since a guy with int 14 all along will no longer be different from a guy who had INT 12 and just went to int 14 at level 10. So that sort of a house rule would not immediately appeal to me, losing in what I want (definition and discrimination) and adding to what I dislike (OOC OOG workload/bookkeeping). [/QUOTE]

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