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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aegeri" data-source="post: 5549181" data-attributes="member: 78116">I was about to say that, because your problems with verisimilitude and the vampire go a lot deeper than what they do out of combat. I mean, you really shouldn't be throwing around the word verisimilitude in this context with how the vampire works <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> The rats are enemies. 4E has a major flaw in that there are two kinds of creature: Allies and Enemies. An enemy is everything that isn't your ally, and an ally is defined by being a willing recipient of your effects. 4E seriously could use a "bystander" or similar kind of designation, so that we can clearly differentiate between "Random rats", "Enemy Rats" and the wizards ally "Rat Familiar". Because as it is, the random rats and enemy rats have no distinction in the rules.This does mean you're literally allowing the bag of rats to work on the vampire. Unless you somehow argue they are all his friends (therefore allies). But again, that's going to be one amusing debate and one I avoid from the get go. Personally I wouldn't even care if it did specify creatures: It wouldn't work on rats regardless of how clever the logic. I mean I'm perfectly willing to buy a vampire can drain the life out of an iron golem.. somehow (don't ask me how). I'm not going to buy the vampire getting special considerations on how the rules work with rats that nobody else does.Edit: Also I don't mind if something doesn't make sense, as long as it's consistent. I'll take a vampire being able to drain surges from undead, golems and crystal things from other dimensions. I totally will: Because it's consistently applied mechanics. I suppose if you should take anything from my points, it's that I am a fan of consistent mechanics. It doesn't make sense a vampire can't use blood drain out of combat. It doesn't make sense that a fighter can't throw away a 4[W] power to get pre-buffed regen before a battle. But at the same time, the balance issues these create by letting them work that way are not worth me saying "MAH IMMERSHUNS DEMANDS CHANGE!". Therefore, Vampires get to blood drain whatever they want - they just have to live with the same rules everyone else does and use their attack powers in combat on valid enemies.</blockquote>

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