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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tigris" data-source="post: 9848567" data-attributes="member: 7043270">How many hours have you spent reading PF2 rules to get it? Not having it explained to you by someone, reading it yourself? Because PF2 has a way bigger complexity to read rules because all keywords etc. than if someone explains it and leaves all the (for the moment) unnecessary things away.PF1 requires less keywords, less initial choices and way less system mastery to make a level 1 party work (with the normal rules, not a beginner adventure, not having someone explain it to you). PF2 is literally unplayable if players dont know that they need to get "free" out of combat heal because the game is balanced around starting each fight with full HP but requires players to have enough system mastery to get enough free healing to do it.PF2 works because it has a target audience who loves to watch guides and spend a lot of time doing systemmastery. So you have if you dont start a new group, also most of the time several players who spent 10s maybe 100s of hours reading about PF2 and thus being able to explain things on the level you need (leaving away the 30 conditions you dont need etc.)I can see that after some levels players struggle less, because in PF2 choices rarely matter, if you have enough free healing, because the differences in powerlevel is soo small that yes its easier to levelup etc. because no matter what you do the difference in strength is in a really small margin, so you dont need to help the players because they cant make much wrong.Also while both PF1 and PF2 have huge modifiers, but PF1 allows them (with a good GM) to often not care about them. If its clear from a low or high dice roll that you hit anyway or miss anyway, you dont have to add dice roll and modifiers together. The PF2 crit mechanic makes this simplification pretty much impossible. Also PF1 starts with 1 attack, while PF2 has multiattack with different attack modifiers from level 1, making combat already more complex. There is a reason why most people play PF2 with digital tools.I am not completly sure that PF2 is really more complex than PF1, but if we calculate the complexit per depth, then PF2 is way way higher.PF1 has a lot of complexity because it has a lot of depth. PF2 has a high complexity because it wants to give the impression of a high depth, thats why for me PF2 feels worse when it comes to complexity.I did read both PF1 and PF2 from scratch without anyone explaining it to me (PF1 first). PF2 is way worse to understand, but I am sure I would have an easier time explaining PF2 to players than PF1. (Because it can be soo much simplified).So I rate the complexity of me understanding it from reading the rules, because thats how the game presents itself.</blockquote>

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