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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tzarevitch" data-source="post: 491747" data-attributes="member: 1792">My problem with Haste is that it makes no sense when compared to any of the feats that allow you to cast a second spell (such as Quicken spell. Quickening a spell requires a slot 4 levels above the spell's normal level. This means that you require a 4th level slot to quicken a cantrip or an orison. Yet, using the Haste spell you can effectively Qucken a spell of ANY level EACH round for 1 round/caster level. Effectively it is a 3rd level spell that allows you a free Quicken Spell feat use at no cost (save the one 3rd level spell slot) with no restrictions. Admittedly, you are sacrificing two spell slots (one for the Haste and one for the other spell) but that is only for the first round and that 3rd level slot you sacrifice is far lower than any slot you could sacrifice to Quicken any spell normally.  Quicken Spell on the other hand is a costly metamagic feat. Presumably that cost exists for game balance purposes otherwise why have a cost at all? That game balance however gets broken by the Haste spell. Quicken costs you one of your precious feat slots permanently AND requires a very high spell slot to even use. You can effectively Quicken a spell at far lower cost (1 3rd level slot and effectively free quickens on succeeding rounds as long as the spell lasts, whereas you'd have to sacrifice a 4th lvl slot MINIMUM EACH ROUND to so much as quicken a cantrip) just by using the Haste spell. What then is the point of the Quicken Spell feat when Haste does the same thing but cheaper and easier? Admittedly, you could do both, but why bother when Quicken is so expensive and Haste so cheap. The second reason that I think Haste as written was poorly thought out is that it is not an equal opportunity benefit to everyone. Take for example a high level fighter w/ 4 attacks. Haste grants that fighter 1 more partial action which at best is a +25% increase in damage (equalling another attack similar to one of the four he already has.) For a spellcaster, haste is always a 100% increase in damage potential regardless of caster level or spell level for 1 round/lvl at no extra cost other than the single 3rd level slot. This more than anything else is why in my campaign I have a hard rule the partial action that haste grants can only be used for movement or for a physical attack. I also sped up Sorcerer's metamagic so that it takes a move equivalent action to use a metamagic feat and a standard action to cast the spell (instead of a full round action to complete the metamagic and the spell). This then allows sorcerers to use the Quicken Spell feat normally.Tzarevitch</blockquote>

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