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Message: <blockquote data-quote="two" data-source="post: 491852" data-attributes="member: 9002">Haste is one of the strangest spells in the game, I think.Do the following thought experiment.Strip all haste items/spells from the game.  All.  No boots, no spells, no nothing.  Act like Haste never existed.Ok.Now, imagine somebody coming up with a new "house rule" spell called (you guessed it) HASTE. (note:  this house rule HASTE is exactly the same as the official HASTE in the non-thought-experiment world)First of all, everyone on the boards would rip it to shreads as being grossly overpowered at level 3.  I can just imagine the flaming carnage.So a change is made:  the house-rule HASTE spell is not level 3, instead it's level 4.  Question:  Would the average sorcerer/wizard still take the spell?Answer:  yes.  It's the ONLY way besides quicken to get off 2 spells in a round, and that is potentially far better than any other level 4 spell.  The +4 AC and other tactical possibilities are just gravy.Next, let's say house-rule HASTE was placed at level 5.  Would sorcerers/wizards still select it?  Same reasoning as above.  Yes.  No other spell can give that sort of effect.  It's still the best level 4, level 5 spell hands down.Keep going.  Level 6.  Level 7.  Level 8.  Level 9.Let's say HASTE was only allowed as a Level 9 spell.  How does it stack up?  Would anyone ever take HASTE as a level 9 spell as opposed to time stop or Meteor Storm or Shapechange?Amazingly, even if HASTE was a level 9 spell, it would probably be in most player's top 4 list of best level 9 spells!  A spell that lets you cast another level 9 spell the same round, then 2 more the next round and etc. for x more rounds?  Now THAT's power.  I expect the typical level 9 uber-spell combo to be:  Haste+Time Stop.   Or Haste+Shapechange.  Or ... you get the idea.  Start with Haste, then do your default level 9 spell.So is HASTE over powered for a freaking level 3 spell?Is this even a question?  Compared to other spells, overwhelmingly yes.  Is it game-breaking, not always.  Sometimes, yes (when what should be a big scary battle turns into a 2 round hold person/web/etc slaughterfest).   But it IS very boring.  Every spell casting type is helped by haste (summoner?  enchanter?  transmuter?  all good).  Do you have to start each battle casting haste then X?  No, you could just cast X.  Barring unusual circumstances, it's suboptimal, and difficult to justify role-playing wise (my incredibly intelligent wizards didn't think to double his spell casting power, oops, my bad).What level would I put HASTE at?  Level 6, probably, range personal.  Mass haste does not exist.  Sure, let them haste, at level 6 it won't happen 3 times a day without serious consequences.Level 3?  I mean come on guys, that's just absurd.  You could just invest in a wand of haste (50 charges). It's a lot of money, sure.  But HOW LONG will it take you to run through 50 charges?  That's like 4-5 character levels or something!  Maybe more.  If you are a super-intelligent wizard that hasn't figured out a way to cast haste at the start of each and every battle, no matter what -- geez.  You ain't that bright I guess.Yes it's overpowered.  No it does not generally break the game; the DM usually compensates by throwing more/harder monsters at you ever combat.  Would the game be better with Haste errated to a much higher level?  I'd say yes; Sorcerers and Wizards don't really need a power boost past level 5 or so.</blockquote>

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