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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 497441" data-attributes="member: 151">Re: ReWell, I don't think this is a purely 'caster vs. melee' thread, quite honestly.  I also think you need to broaden your selection of reading material, as I can think of plenty of fantasy novels where the mages DO NOT outshine the non-casting classes, but that's really neither here nor there, when we're discussing the mechanics of a spell in a game.I would certainly disagree that 95% of sorcerors take See Invisibility.  Glitterdust is much more utilitarian for their limited known spells, and the same level.  Of the spells you've listed, only three are the same level as haste, and your average sorceror will memorize two of them, and haste.  I have never seen a caster yet under 3e that doesn't take it.  However, that has nothing to do with it's balance issue.  None of the spells listed above are unbalanced, IMHO, but all are essentials to an arcane caster's list and well-being.  In the same vein, claiming that haste is easily dealt with by casting slow ignores the issue of it's balance, as well.  Heal can be cast to counteract the effects of Harm, but you clearly see a problem with that.  This doesn't mean that I'm equating the two...they're separate spells with separate issues.  But the argument that it's easily countered isn't as relevant (note that I didn't say it was irrelevant) as other factors.But therein lies the rub, and the crux of the problem.  Taking from the list above: Fireball, Shield, Magic Missle, Lightning Bolt, the Dispels, the Teleports and Disintigrate...with one exception, all of them are fire and forget spells;  three of the spells are just damage dealers.  The nature of the battle is not changed.  The nature of haste is such that it creates a detente of haste have and have-nots, as you essentially describe it.  Ignoring the breakdown in verisimilitude that following such a line of thinking might create, the issue rapidly becomes one of altering some (perhaps all) encounters to factor haste in.  This is not done nearly as often with spells such as magic missle, fireball, distintigrate, finger of death or many other stand-by spells.  Does this make haste broken?  I don't know.  It certainly is strong, but so are several other spells at 3rd level (as opposed to the wasteland of arcane's 2nd).I think a major issue that was pointed out earlier, and more relevant than magic level of a campaign, is frequency of encounters.  In a game where the mage is only expecting two encounters a day, the mass haste will fly ASAP.  In a game where there may be six battles in a day, haste will no fly out of the box until needed.  That seems to be a much more important factor.</blockquote>

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