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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 499751" data-attributes="member: 5834">ReI said most fantasy books, not all. I would say about 90% of fantasy stories portray wizards as the most powerful character, even if they are not the main character.I feel see invisibility is more utilitarian because it allows one to see astral and ethereal beings. Glitterdust is not effective against such creatures and has a smaller range. Glitterdust is better for assisting other members of the party though.Just because you have not seen a caster without haste, does not mean it cannot be done. A caster could just as easily substitute slow for haste and use it as a countermeasure and a utility spell to help his party. As has been stated here numerous times, slow automatically (no check required) dispels haste on multiple targets.An arcane caster can get by without the haste spell by taking the slow spell. This is not even open for debate.Haste is always taken just like magic missile and disintegrate are always taken. They are fun spells to cast and much better than any alternative at a given level. So the fact that 99.9% of arcane casters take haste does not make it imbalanced.Actually, Harm and haste are not equivalent. You cannot dispel a harm. You cannot defend against a harm at all. A harm gives no saving throw and if you bypass spell resistance, you could do as much damage as the creature has hit points even if it is 2,000 hit points or more.Now, think about this, haste is only as good as the spells or weapons you can use in conjunction with it. On your best day, you would never be able to do the damage harm does even while hasted. At best you could throw a couple of death spells and hope the opponent fails their save.Haste basically allows an arcane caster to unleash powerful damaging or deadly spells at a faster rate. That is the big complaint of those who want to see haste changed. It accelerates combats. If there were no great spells to use in conjunction with haste, then no one would be complaining. An extra melee attack is easily tolerable for a third level spell to most, it is the extra spell attack that bothers most DM's.This is why I see haste as balanced. It gives an extra partial action and +4 AC. If all anyone could ever cast was 3rd level spells, this spell would not be an issue. The spell itself becomes no more or less powerful than it has ever been. The problem is that the arcane caster gains access to higher level spells that are more powerful.These higher level spells when used in conjunction with haste make haste seem more powerful than it is when the spell itself has not changed. All that has gone up is its duration, which is the same for any spell. Those who state haste is overpowered are really stating that the magic system is overpowered. It doesn't matter if haste is lvl 3 or lvl 9, they will feel that giving an arcane caster an extra partial action is imbalancing.An extra partial action will always allow an arcane caster to do some serious damage no matter what level the spell.Which brings me back to my original assertion, haste is only imbalanced if one does not like a high magic style of play where arcane casters have a serious advantage over their opponents. Haste is a spell that gives a serious advantage.At the same time, the spell itself neither increases nor decreases in power. Haste becomes more powerful only because the caster becomes more powerful. This a balance issue with the overall magic system and not just haste.Makes me wonder what those people against haste are going to do the first time someone uses Time Stop spell.I seriously disagree with the assertion that the above spells are not factored into the battle plan of any war leader worth a damn. A single fireball can seriously disrupt ones tactical plans. A disintegrate can easily kill your most powerful mage. Teleport allows the enemy to escape. What mage doesn't factor in magic missile? Most magi take the shield spell to counter magic missile, especially for mage duels. Magic missle is a dangerous spell to arcane casters with their low hit points.I would say everyone of these spells and most death effect spells are factored into the combat plans of any worthy war leader. For them not to factor such spells is to invite destruction upon them and their army.If all these other spells must be prepared for, I see no reason why haste should not also be prepared for. What is wrong with an arcane caster having to take slow as well as Protection from Elements and Death Ward? I see absolutely nothing wrong with factoring haste into most encounters the same as I can expect to get hit by fireballs and lightning bolts by arcane casters.Mkletch,Your entire post supports the assertion that haste is imbalanced because of conflicts with personal preference rather than innate spell power. Haste does not scale up nor down. It stays the same as do its countermeasures.If you would prefer to have more creative magical battles where haste is not a factor, that is by all means your choice. It does not mean the spell is imbalanced.</blockquote>

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