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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wyckedemus" data-source="post: 545849" data-attributes="member: 1079">I think haste should be lessened in powerMainly because of several experiences I've encountered.1)  Bad guys had haste.  Good guys did not.The bad guys wiped the floor with the good guys.  I had to come up with an excuse to avoid a TPK.2)  Good guys had haste.  Really tough bad guys did not.The good guys beat a really tough encounter way too fast.  It was as if there was no challenge.  If there had not been a haste spell, the party would still most likely have won, but they would have been clawing their way to victory and hurting bad.  The PC's basically got twice as many actions as the baddies.  The players cheered at first, but then dismayed on how anticlimactic the encounter was.  (it was a secondary boss fight, btw.)3)  Wizard had haste spell for a mage duel.  Opposing wizard did not.Guess who had no chance...Another way to look at the power level of an ability is like so...Consider two opponents.  They are the same class and level with the same ability scores.  They have all the same options for creation, with one difference.  Give one of the opponents access to the ability in question.  The other does not get it.  Then let them go at it.In this situation, haste-boy and time-stop-man are FAR more efficient and powerful than their opponent.  Very few other spells can boast the same benefit.  Not shield, not dispel magic, not disintegrate.  Not harm.  Through the use of the rest of their powers, there is a way around the vast majority of tactics.  Not all are the most efficient, but there are ways around them.You can teleport out of a force cage.  You can cast spell resistance to try and prevent harm from waxing you.  If they can fly, you can summon flyers or shoot 'em with ranged effects.  If they are Imp Invis, then cast blindsight.In order to dispel haste, you have to make a caster check.  Roughly a 50% chance to succeed.  And you HAVE to be within medium range AND be able to target them.In order to automatically cancel a haste effect with the slow spell, you have to be within CLOSE range and be able to TARGET the hasted inividual.  You have the same problem with countering haste with slow.  You have to be within close range.  Most buffers try not to be that close when they decide to hasten the killing factor.  This is all very hard to do against those damn Imp Invis, Hasted, Flying bassturds.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />There is no defense against these spells beyond enhancing yourself with the same spell and striking as much and as fast as you can first.Any ability whose only checks and balances (in the combat system) are the exact same ability is too powerful.  It REQUIRES the game to take that tempo if you are one of the people who say "If there is one tactic superior to all others, then any person with access to said tactic would use it just to keep competetive and alive in their field.  It makes no sense NOT to do it.  If you don't have it, then you are half as effective as your opposition."I DM'd a player who ran an arcane spellcaster in my home game who strongly felt this way.  He could not comprehend why Boccob's Blessed Books were not status quo for ALL wizards 5th lvl and higher in the ENTIRE game world.  If you ran the numbers then every one of these smart wizards should have known of their efficiency and benefitted from them.  Brooch's of shielding wer also big on his list.  Haste was TOP on his list.  Some people believe thet "If you do not lead a combat with haste, then either it's not a tough combat in any way, shape or form OR you are a substandard spellcaster for using inefficient tactics."If haste did not allow multiple spells per round then the accusation or opinion that a particular DM's encounter pacing was wrong could not be voiced.  Someone belittled another DM's ability to challenge his group because ONE spell can change the entire face of combat.  This spell drastically affects the tempo of an adventure and the challenge that an encounter provides.  ONE SPELL.I vote for haste to provide an extra Move-Equivalent action, +2 dodge or haste bonus to AC (.. either type, it's semantics), and +10  to your movement rate.I would also change Expeditious retreat to say +20 to speed at 1st level, +30 to speed at 5th level, and +40 to speed at 10th level.  It would also give you the RUN feat.  (The spell is for running away!  So Run!  hee hee hee)  It would only work for natural movement modes.  (I would get rid of any instance where a magical effect multiplies your movement rate.)Have fun  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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