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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6808567" data-attributes="member: 22779">Nope.&nbsp; You're the one trying to wiggle because you've never actually answered my question.&nbsp; How is doing something you KNOW other people don't want you to do, would be unhappy if they knew you did it, and keeping the fact that you are doing it a secret specifically BECAUSE you know it would make the other person(s) unhappy, not dishonest?&nbsp; In what way is this upfront, transparent, or honest behaviour?&nbsp; You can take it as an insult all you like, but, it doesn't change the fact that you are specifically lying to your players.&nbsp; And note, as far as playing behind a screen goes, nothing about that is necessarily dishonest.&nbsp; It's information being withheld as a specific time, sure, but, that information is meant to be revealed to the players at the appropriate time.&nbsp; it's not like we hide a map behind the screen and then use an entirely different map. Well, I suppose we could, but, what would be the point?&nbsp; And changing the map (or adventure details) in order to bring about a specific event that the DM wants to happen is called railroading and it's generally seen as a bad thing.&nbsp; No one wants to be called a railroading DM.&nbsp; There is no appropriate time to reveal fudging.&nbsp; The advice in the DMG even specifically calls this out that you are not to inform the players that you are doing this.&nbsp; See, AFAIC, [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION] is focused on the wrong issue.&nbsp; The issue isn't really changing the die rolls - there are loads of ways to do that within the rules as they stand.&nbsp; Good grief, you have Inspiration, the Luck feat, umpteen magical reactions, rogues can &quot;take 10&quot; after the fact on skill checks by a certain level, and I'm sure there are more.&nbsp; It's not that the die roll is specifically sacred.&nbsp; It's the fact that you are changing the die roll AND keeping that change a secret.If it was a good thing, you wouldn't be hiding it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6808567, member: 22779"] Nope. You're the one trying to wiggle because you've never actually answered my question. How is doing something you KNOW other people don't want you to do, would be unhappy if they knew you did it, and keeping the fact that you are doing it a secret specifically BECAUSE you know it would make the other person(s) unhappy, not dishonest? In what way is this upfront, transparent, or honest behaviour? You can take it as an insult all you like, but, it doesn't change the fact that you are specifically lying to your players. And note, as far as playing behind a screen goes, nothing about that is necessarily dishonest. It's information being withheld as a specific time, sure, but, that information is meant to be revealed to the players at the appropriate time. it's not like we hide a map behind the screen and then use an entirely different map. Well, I suppose we could, but, what would be the point? And changing the map (or adventure details) in order to bring about a specific event that the DM wants to happen is called railroading and it's generally seen as a bad thing. No one wants to be called a railroading DM. There is no appropriate time to reveal fudging. The advice in the DMG even specifically calls this out that you are not to inform the players that you are doing this. See, AFAIC, [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION] is focused on the wrong issue. The issue isn't really changing the die rolls - there are loads of ways to do that within the rules as they stand. Good grief, you have Inspiration, the Luck feat, umpteen magical reactions, rogues can "take 10" after the fact on skill checks by a certain level, and I'm sure there are more. It's not that the die roll is specifically sacred. It's the fact that you are changing the die roll [u]AND[/u] keeping that change a secret. If it was a good thing, you wouldn't be hiding it. [/QUOTE]

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