Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Do you want your DM to fudge?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 6810126" data-attributes="member: 6778044"><p>I thought I was pretty clear why I have a problem with your statement. I find it offensive for somebody to presume to tell me <em>why</em> I do what I do.</p><p></p><p>First and foremost, the problem I have is in the statement you have above:</p><p></p><p>You're statement is that 'x' <em>was more important to you</em> than 'y.' In addition you specifically say "I am asserting you fudged because"</p><p></p><p>The "more important to you" and "you fudged because" are declarations of intent. You are presuming to declare <em>why</em> I, or somebody else, is doing what they are doing. In that you are wrong. I gave you a very specific and clear example as to why I did something that had nothing to do with the story. I didn't care what the impact was to the story or the challenge. And yet you continue to say "you fudged because."</p><p></p><p>You don't have the right to declare <em>why</em> somebody else did something. What, how, what the impact was, etc. That's fine. Not the why.</p><p></p><p>In the game situation: The DM fudges to protect the character from dying is very different the the DM that fudges to kill a character. The intent is important.</p><p></p><p>My intent in a metagame situation may have had no practical difference than if I had fudged to ensure the character was still alive for the next encounter because they are crucial to the next challenge. But the intent is still different. You stated that fudging "100% prioritizes the story over the challenge" and it does no such thing.</p><p></p><p>You are correct that the act of fudging has an impact on the story, and/or challenge. I, and several others have agreed with you on this point.</p><p></p><p>It doesn't <em>always</em> prioritize story over challenge, particularly if the DM in question fudges in favor of the monsters by adding to the to-hit roll, increasing hit points, etc. </p><p></p><p>You have said several times that it 100% does 'x'. This is also wrong, it is not 100%. It's not 100% of the reason that a DM might fudge, nor is the result 100% the same, because it depends on what the DM did.</p><p></p><p>In the same example, the DM's could just as easily be prioritizing the challenge and/or risk over the story. Maybe they realized the encounter was too easy, or maybe it was too hard, so they fudged. It impacts the story, but in that case they were prioritizing the challenge, and the intent, the <em>why</em> was that they were more concerned about the challenge than the story.</p><p></p><p>--</p><p></p><p>As to the second point, I should have asked "Is that bad? Is that good? Does it really matter?"</p><p></p><p>Because I still don't get the point of you continuing to tell people the same thing that we've already agreed to.</p><p></p><p>"Fudging potentially alters the story, challenge and/or risk." I don't think anybody disagrees with this. Point made.</p><p></p><p>But so what? Why do we care? What <em>is</em> the point that you are trying to make? If it's just that it always prioritizes one over the other, then that's incorrect. If it's something else, what is it?</p><p></p><p>Maybe you're trying to say that it impacts the perception of challenge in the players? It might. Not 100%. It's never impacted my perception of challenge. It doesn't seem to have impacted the perception of challenge for anybody I've played with that I can think of, although I really can't answer for anybody except myself.</p><p></p><p>My extended response in the last post is due in part to the fact that there are others involved in the thread, and some of those have implicitly said fudging is 'bad' or at the very least that they refuse to play in a game where the DM is willing to fudge. As a result, I was using our discussion to tie into the greater discussion and ask, is that a bad thing? In the future, I will separate responses directly to you from questions posed to the group as a whole to avoid further confusion.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ilbranteloth, post: 6810126, member: 6778044"] I thought I was pretty clear why I have a problem with your statement. I find it offensive for somebody to presume to tell me [I]why[/I] I do what I do. First and foremost, the problem I have is in the statement you have above: You're statement is that 'x' [I]was more important to you[/I] than 'y.' In addition you specifically say "I am asserting you fudged because" The "more important to you" and "you fudged because" are declarations of intent. You are presuming to declare [I]why[/I] I, or somebody else, is doing what they are doing. In that you are wrong. I gave you a very specific and clear example as to why I did something that had nothing to do with the story. I didn't care what the impact was to the story or the challenge. And yet you continue to say "you fudged because." You don't have the right to declare [I]why[/I] somebody else did something. What, how, what the impact was, etc. That's fine. Not the why. In the game situation: The DM fudges to protect the character from dying is very different the the DM that fudges to kill a character. The intent is important. My intent in a metagame situation may have had no practical difference than if I had fudged to ensure the character was still alive for the next encounter because they are crucial to the next challenge. But the intent is still different. You stated that fudging "100% prioritizes the story over the challenge" and it does no such thing. You are correct that the act of fudging has an impact on the story, and/or challenge. I, and several others have agreed with you on this point. It doesn't [I]always[/I] prioritize story over challenge, particularly if the DM in question fudges in favor of the monsters by adding to the to-hit roll, increasing hit points, etc. You have said several times that it 100% does 'x'. This is also wrong, it is not 100%. It's not 100% of the reason that a DM might fudge, nor is the result 100% the same, because it depends on what the DM did. In the same example, the DM's could just as easily be prioritizing the challenge and/or risk over the story. Maybe they realized the encounter was too easy, or maybe it was too hard, so they fudged. It impacts the story, but in that case they were prioritizing the challenge, and the intent, the [I]why[/I] was that they were more concerned about the challenge than the story. -- As to the second point, I should have asked "Is that bad? Is that good? Does it really matter?" Because I still don't get the point of you continuing to tell people the same thing that we've already agreed to. "Fudging potentially alters the story, challenge and/or risk." I don't think anybody disagrees with this. Point made. But so what? Why do we care? What [I]is[/I] the point that you are trying to make? If it's just that it always prioritizes one over the other, then that's incorrect. If it's something else, what is it? Maybe you're trying to say that it impacts the perception of challenge in the players? It might. Not 100%. It's never impacted my perception of challenge. It doesn't seem to have impacted the perception of challenge for anybody I've played with that I can think of, although I really can't answer for anybody except myself. My extended response in the last post is due in part to the fact that there are others involved in the thread, and some of those have implicitly said fudging is 'bad' or at the very least that they refuse to play in a game where the DM is willing to fudge. As a result, I was using our discussion to tie into the greater discussion and ask, is that a bad thing? In the future, I will separate responses directly to you from questions posed to the group as a whole to avoid further confusion. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Do you want your DM to fudge?
Top