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Do you want your DM to fudge?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 6814082" data-attributes="member: 6778044"><p>This is an interesting statement (and I know it was partially in reference to a business, not necessarily gaming directly), but I think this illustrates a major reason why I don't have any problem if a DM fudges in a game I'm a player, nor did I ever really think of it as being 'a problem' as a DM.</p><p></p><p>I've never thought of 'success' and 'failure' within the RPG structure. A great story and a great time playing is what the game is all about to me. One die roll, fudged or not, really has no bearing to me. 'Comparing sessions in a meaningful way' is to me is remembering the shared experience, the story, and yes sometimes the great rolls. But let's say that 20 that you rolled that took out the Ogre didn't really do enough damage to kill the ogre, but the DM fudged the hit points and let it happen anyway.</p><p></p><p>From a competitive or comparative point of view, I guess I can understand why it would bother some people. But I don't really care about that. The DM saw that the ogre was going to die in the next hit or two, even if it hit a PC for another couple of hit points it wouldn't have much impact, and the next hit for a handful of hit points wouldn't be as dramatic or memorable. I'm not suggesting that DMs <em>should</em> do that, but I'd be OK with it if they did, and it wouldn't change my perception or memory of the event either. </p><p></p><p>Invalidating the character's actions doesn't really compute to me in another way, since to me the combination of the DM and the dice make the framework of the world for the players and their characters. The DM fudging isn't effectively any different than having, say, a fate die that is occasionally rolled to modify the results.</p><p></p><p>Yes, I know that some of you are going to say that a 'fate die' rule is known ahead of time, and has mechanics and such, but the reality is that the DM also decides when to use the fate mechanic in a lot of games, and thus directly influences them by DM decision. Fudging is the same thing, the DM altering the events by their decision, except that randomness is removed from the equation.</p><p></p><p>If the setting has Gods (which they generally do), the DM is playing the part of the Gods and fate, etc. at least in part. So I just don't have a problem if the DM assumes that roll to modify the result of a die roll every once in a while.</p><p></p><p>Even Elminster appearing to help out can be fun if not overused. And I guess that's the point for me, it's not so much of a question as to what the tool is, but how it's used, and how much. Overuse is a fluid concept, what's too much for some people or some games is fine for others. Other than to say that the Elminster or fudging save shouldn't be a regular occurrence.</p><p></p><p>As for people being able to tell when I fudge (already assuming that the players have indicated that it's OK for me to do so), I doubt it. Rolling a die and glancing down at it and deciding the number is different than what is rolled is just not something that I think anybody would detect without seeing the die. A DM would have to fudge an awful lot to statistically change the probabilities of an entire game session to any significant degree. And more so for that bias to be noticeable.</p><p></p><p>Totally understand that others don't feel the same way, but as a player it doesn't matter to me. The memory of the game and the time with friends does.</p><p></p><p>Ilbranteloth</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ilbranteloth, post: 6814082, member: 6778044"] This is an interesting statement (and I know it was partially in reference to a business, not necessarily gaming directly), but I think this illustrates a major reason why I don't have any problem if a DM fudges in a game I'm a player, nor did I ever really think of it as being 'a problem' as a DM. I've never thought of 'success' and 'failure' within the RPG structure. A great story and a great time playing is what the game is all about to me. One die roll, fudged or not, really has no bearing to me. 'Comparing sessions in a meaningful way' is to me is remembering the shared experience, the story, and yes sometimes the great rolls. But let's say that 20 that you rolled that took out the Ogre didn't really do enough damage to kill the ogre, but the DM fudged the hit points and let it happen anyway. From a competitive or comparative point of view, I guess I can understand why it would bother some people. But I don't really care about that. The DM saw that the ogre was going to die in the next hit or two, even if it hit a PC for another couple of hit points it wouldn't have much impact, and the next hit for a handful of hit points wouldn't be as dramatic or memorable. I'm not suggesting that DMs [i]should[/i] do that, but I'd be OK with it if they did, and it wouldn't change my perception or memory of the event either. Invalidating the character's actions doesn't really compute to me in another way, since to me the combination of the DM and the dice make the framework of the world for the players and their characters. The DM fudging isn't effectively any different than having, say, a fate die that is occasionally rolled to modify the results. Yes, I know that some of you are going to say that a 'fate die' rule is known ahead of time, and has mechanics and such, but the reality is that the DM also decides when to use the fate mechanic in a lot of games, and thus directly influences them by DM decision. Fudging is the same thing, the DM altering the events by their decision, except that randomness is removed from the equation. If the setting has Gods (which they generally do), the DM is playing the part of the Gods and fate, etc. at least in part. So I just don't have a problem if the DM assumes that roll to modify the result of a die roll every once in a while. Even Elminster appearing to help out can be fun if not overused. And I guess that's the point for me, it's not so much of a question as to what the tool is, but how it's used, and how much. Overuse is a fluid concept, what's too much for some people or some games is fine for others. Other than to say that the Elminster or fudging save shouldn't be a regular occurrence. As for people being able to tell when I fudge (already assuming that the players have indicated that it's OK for me to do so), I doubt it. Rolling a die and glancing down at it and deciding the number is different than what is rolled is just not something that I think anybody would detect without seeing the die. A DM would have to fudge an awful lot to statistically change the probabilities of an entire game session to any significant degree. And more so for that bias to be noticeable. Totally understand that others don't feel the same way, but as a player it doesn't matter to me. The memory of the game and the time with friends does. Ilbranteloth [/QUOTE]
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