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<blockquote data-quote="tafkamhokie" data-source="post: 4169592" data-attributes="member: 62064">For a real-world comparison from the martial arts, consider this:In tournament point-fighting, the objective is to make contact with a properly executed technique against a valid target area (front of torso, head, or kidneys).&nbsp; I would compare this to a Dex vs. Reflex attack.In boxing, the objective is to bludgeon your opponent to unconsciousness.&nbsp; I would compare this to a Str vs. AC attack.In both cases, you have unarmed, unarmored combatants squared off against each other.&nbsp; Yet the defensive tactics used in both cases are dramatically different.&nbsp; In point-fighting, you need to prevent contact...so you dodge, block, bob and weave, and try to get out of the way of incoming attacks.&nbsp; Reflex defense.In boxing, you guard your vital areas and twist your body to minimize the damage of a hit, but you are getting hit all the time.&nbsp; You are still using your Dex to defend, but it is not pure dodging to avoid the blows altogether.&nbsp; You also use your gloves, your arms, and your shoulders to deflect blows and minimize their damage, much like armor would in a lethal fight with weapons.&nbsp; AC defense.When you are trying to dodge something to prevent contact, you employ one set of defensive skills.&nbsp; When you are trying to minimize the damage from oncoming blows, you employ a different set of defensive skills.And I have known plenty of people who are elite point-fighters (i.e. VERY high reflex defense) who wouldn't last 90 seconds against a competent boxer.Similarly, I can certainly see a rogue being good at the bob and weave, duck, dodge, hop, parry, etc. style of fighting where he is very hard to get in a clean touch with a ray attack.&nbsp; But subject the same rogue to an onslaught from a skilled fighter who knows how to limit your battlefield movements, and he will get pummeled to death because he only knows how to dodge and not how to minimize damage.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tafkamhokie, post: 4169592, member: 62064"] For a real-world comparison from the martial arts, consider this: In tournament point-fighting, the objective is to make contact with a properly executed technique against a valid target area (front of torso, head, or kidneys). I would compare this to a Dex vs. Reflex attack. In boxing, the objective is to bludgeon your opponent to unconsciousness. I would compare this to a Str vs. AC attack. In both cases, you have unarmed, unarmored combatants squared off against each other. Yet the defensive tactics used in both cases are dramatically different. In point-fighting, you need to prevent contact...so you dodge, block, bob and weave, and try to get out of the way of incoming attacks. Reflex defense. In boxing, you guard your vital areas and twist your body to minimize the damage of a hit, but you are getting hit all the time. You are still using your Dex to defend, but it is not pure dodging to avoid the blows altogether. You also use your gloves, your arms, and your shoulders to deflect blows and minimize their damage, much like armor would in a lethal fight with weapons. AC defense. When you are trying to dodge something to prevent contact, you employ one set of defensive skills. When you are trying to minimize the damage from oncoming blows, you employ a different set of defensive skills. And I have known plenty of people who are elite point-fighters (i.e. VERY high reflex defense) who wouldn't last 90 seconds against a competent boxer. Similarly, I can certainly see a rogue being good at the bob and weave, duck, dodge, hop, parry, etc. style of fighting where he is very hard to get in a clean touch with a ray attack. But subject the same rogue to an onslaught from a skilled fighter who knows how to limit your battlefield movements, and he will get pummeled to death because he only knows how to dodge and not how to minimize damage. [/QUOTE]

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