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<blockquote data-quote="Storm Raven" data-source="post: 3270108" data-attributes="member: 307">And he gives up quite a bit by dipping in another class. You don't seem to understand opportunity cost. Dipping four levels of barbarian costs the rogue +2d6 sneak attack, a net of 16 skill points, and two rogue selectable special abilities.Dipping four levels of barbarian nets the rogue rage twice per day, and fast movement. The barbarian's uncanny dodge ability overlaps the rogue's, and since the rogue is getting 16 levels of rogue, that doesn't benefit him.The rogue gains no net gain in BAB. He gains a net +3 to his Fort save, but loses a net +1 to his Reflex save. He gains a little durability - gaining on average +12 hit points (raising him from an average of 70 hit points as a 20th level rogue, to 82 as a rogue 16/barbarian 4). In addition, the barbarian skill list doesn't mesh incredibly well with the rogue list, meaning he will either have a couple skills permanently at relatively low levels (driven by his barbarian selections) or buy some rogue skills at double cost with his barbarian skill points, or have to navigate what skills appear on both lists. In any event, he is less skillful than the straight rogue.How is this a powergaming tradeoff? How is this particularly beneficial to the rogue? What he gains is at best as valuable as he gives up, and probably less valuable. &quot;Dipping&quot; is likely a net loss for the rogue.I think your &quot;powergaming&quot; claim has pretty much been nullified as the hookum that it actually is.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Storm Raven, post: 3270108, member: 307"] And he gives up quite a bit by dipping in another class. You don't seem to understand opportunity cost. Dipping four levels of barbarian costs the rogue +2d6 sneak attack, a net of 16 skill points, and two rogue selectable special abilities. Dipping four levels of barbarian nets the rogue rage twice per day, and fast movement. The barbarian's uncanny dodge ability overlaps the rogue's, and since the rogue is getting 16 levels of rogue, that doesn't benefit him. The rogue gains no net gain in BAB. He gains a net +3 to his Fort save, but loses a net +1 to his Reflex save. He gains a little durability - gaining on average +12 hit points (raising him from an average of 70 hit points as a 20th level rogue, to 82 as a rogue 16/barbarian 4). In addition, the barbarian skill list doesn't mesh incredibly well with the rogue list, meaning he will either have a couple skills permanently at relatively low levels (driven by his barbarian selections) or buy some rogue skills at double cost with his barbarian skill points, or have to navigate what skills appear on both lists. In any event, he is less skillful than the straight rogue. How is this a powergaming tradeoff? How is this particularly beneficial to the rogue? What he gains is [i]at best[/i] as valuable as he gives up, and probably less valuable. "Dipping" is likely a net loss for the rogue. I think your "powergaming" claim has pretty much been nullified as the hookum that it actually is. [/QUOTE]

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