Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Does 4e limit the scope of campaigns?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4667591" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>I don't think 4e imposes a larger restriction. I think a better way to word it is that 4e provides less support for different tones and playstyles.</p><p></p><p>4e is a very <strong>focused</strong> game. What it's focused on is combat. It doesn't give a real kobold's tail about anything else -- to 4e, combat is <strong>the</strong> fun part of D&D. Everything else -- espionage, horror, exploration, survival, etc., etc., is boring to 4e.</p><p></p><p>It nods at the other stuff, but the fact of the matter is that skill challenges and rituals (which are going to be the first two answers that leap to mind for those who think it DOESN'T restrict) cannot support a campaign that revolves around them -- there's not enough variety and depth (and balance) in them to hold up a campaign that heavily uses them. </p><p></p><p>Any style of play that doesn't heavily focus on combat is not supported very well in 4e right now.</p><p></p><p>That said, most styles of play probably do heavily focus on combat. Combat is the most important part of the game to get "right" in many cases. It is possible that future adjunct systems can handle other genres and playstyles better than the core rules do right now. 4e probably has the capacity to do more (nothing is stopping it), it just chooses not to (Wizards doesn't think it's especially important).</p><p></p><p>This narrow focus is more "encourages you to one style" rather than "prohibits other styles." There is empty design space there, waiting to be made. There's nothing there right now, though. </p><p></p><p>The style that it encourages is for you to go out and beat things over the head with sharp peices of metal and glittery magic lazers until you get their XP's and GP's.</p><p></p><p>Every other form of resolution is less encouraged to the point where you really can't run a game that doesn't use combat as the main form of resolution in any kind of satisfying way with the game.</p><p></p><p>This isn't accidental. It's intentional. </p><p></p><p>What worries me most going forward in 4e, with regards to old and new settings, is that this idea -- that combat is the best idea, the most fun thing to do, and the thing that needs the most support -- won't get pushed aside by new rules and settings. Ravenloft won't be a game about horror and protection, it'll be a game about going into crypts and fighting vampires instead of a game about going into dungeons and fighting dragons. Planescape in 4e won't be a game about exploring the unknown and philosophical metaphysics, it'll be a game about going into the planes and fighting demon lords. Dark Sun in 4e won't be a game about survival and necessary cruelty, it'll be a game about going into the weastlands and fighting psychic bugs. </p><p></p><p>I worry that 4e will reduce everything to combat, and in that respect, it'll effectively have only one setting, one style, and one kind of campaign: the kind where you go somewhere and kill something.</p><p></p><p>I really don't think that's what every D&D game should be about, and that has never been what MOST of my D&D games are about.</p><p></p><p>The focus is nice if that's what I'm looking for, but I'm not really looking for that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 4667591, member: 2067"] I don't think 4e imposes a larger restriction. I think a better way to word it is that 4e provides less support for different tones and playstyles. 4e is a very [B]focused[/B] game. What it's focused on is combat. It doesn't give a real kobold's tail about anything else -- to 4e, combat is [B]the[/B] fun part of D&D. Everything else -- espionage, horror, exploration, survival, etc., etc., is boring to 4e. It nods at the other stuff, but the fact of the matter is that skill challenges and rituals (which are going to be the first two answers that leap to mind for those who think it DOESN'T restrict) cannot support a campaign that revolves around them -- there's not enough variety and depth (and balance) in them to hold up a campaign that heavily uses them. Any style of play that doesn't heavily focus on combat is not supported very well in 4e right now. That said, most styles of play probably do heavily focus on combat. Combat is the most important part of the game to get "right" in many cases. It is possible that future adjunct systems can handle other genres and playstyles better than the core rules do right now. 4e probably has the capacity to do more (nothing is stopping it), it just chooses not to (Wizards doesn't think it's especially important). This narrow focus is more "encourages you to one style" rather than "prohibits other styles." There is empty design space there, waiting to be made. There's nothing there right now, though. The style that it encourages is for you to go out and beat things over the head with sharp peices of metal and glittery magic lazers until you get their XP's and GP's. Every other form of resolution is less encouraged to the point where you really can't run a game that doesn't use combat as the main form of resolution in any kind of satisfying way with the game. This isn't accidental. It's intentional. What worries me most going forward in 4e, with regards to old and new settings, is that this idea -- that combat is the best idea, the most fun thing to do, and the thing that needs the most support -- won't get pushed aside by new rules and settings. Ravenloft won't be a game about horror and protection, it'll be a game about going into crypts and fighting vampires instead of a game about going into dungeons and fighting dragons. Planescape in 4e won't be a game about exploring the unknown and philosophical metaphysics, it'll be a game about going into the planes and fighting demon lords. Dark Sun in 4e won't be a game about survival and necessary cruelty, it'll be a game about going into the weastlands and fighting psychic bugs. I worry that 4e will reduce everything to combat, and in that respect, it'll effectively have only one setting, one style, and one kind of campaign: the kind where you go somewhere and kill something. I really don't think that's what every D&D game should be about, and that has never been what MOST of my D&D games are about. The focus is nice if that's what I'm looking for, but I'm not really looking for that. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Does 4e limit the scope of campaigns?
Top