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Does 4e limit the scope of campaigns?
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<blockquote data-quote="Wik" data-source="post: 4667633" data-attributes="member: 40177"><p>It was, and you can do Cthulu better in earlier editions. 3e had the optional sanity rules - it required a bit of tweaking, but it was doable. Ditto for 2e. 4e, unfortunately, doesn't have those tweaks available in print. You could do it yourself, though I doubt it would work as well as it did in 3e. Personal taste there, though.</p><p></p><p>Good point about the Far Realm being more common in 4e - that IS a selling point of the game, and I had forgotten it. But, anything Cthuluesque in 4e is aimed more towards the combat encounter, as opposed to the "Weeping in a corner and praying" encounter. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Good point. But in my experiences, daily powers are not that great, especially in a survival horror setting where it's usually the PCs against many smaller enemies. Healing surges are more important, and I can see how they would contribute to survival horror; but, in other editions, this would be covered by the fact that PCs cannot self-heal, and have a limited amount of healing resources available to them... the choice being "do I heal now, and waste our last CLW on me, or do I go into the next fight wounded and save that CLW for an emergency?"</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, part of my problem with 4e investigative games has to do with the limited skill list - fewer skills mean that there's more PC overlap. And rituals, while useful, do nothing to encourage PC versatility. After all, any PC that has the ritual caster feat would basically have access to all the same rituals as everyone else (since there's no reason why PCs shouldn't share). So, the only differences between characters would be generally in the skills they chose... and if you have a skill that I don't have, odds are we're only +5 or so different anyways. </p><p></p><p>Compare this to 3e, where different classes offered different spells, and there was a wider range of skills to select from. It was, in effect, easier for each character to specialize. </p><p></p><p>I realize 3e wasn't the greatest for an investigation game, either (especially at higher levels!), but I feel it runs better for purposes of long-term play, as each PC will have their own niche. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It'd require a few tweaks! But, it could be done - but then, any system, appropriately tweaked, can cover anything. I realize you can use 4e to run a historical game... my question is really, how much tweaking would be necessary?</p><p></p><p>Low magic/history hasn't been easy for most editions of D&D, 3e and 4e in particular. And that's cool with me. But you CAN do it... it was pretty easy in 2e, especially if you used the historical supplements. You could drop the wizard and cleric from the game, and the game would still run. You can't do that in 3e, because the game sort of assumes the presence of a healer, and builds that into the CR/encounter design. It's easier in 4e, because the game doesn't assume a fully "balanced" party in encounter design... but I don't think it'd run as smoothly as it did in 2e. That being said, I think it'd be fun giving it a shot! </p><p></p><p>(Tweaking a game is fun, after all)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You're right, and I *am* being unfair to 4e. I'm comparing it to games that have had years of design behind them - of course 3e will have more supplements that allow Cthuluesque horror, for example. But, I don't think it's too early to discuss what 4e can or cannot handle. I believe we have a pretty good idea of where 4e is at, and where it's heading - and the focus on combat seems to be holding the course. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>God, that *IS* a scary thought. I was thinking about how cool 4e DARK SUN would be, but now you've scared me. You really do make a point... </p><p></p><p>*shudder*</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Wik, post: 4667633, member: 40177"] It was, and you can do Cthulu better in earlier editions. 3e had the optional sanity rules - it required a bit of tweaking, but it was doable. Ditto for 2e. 4e, unfortunately, doesn't have those tweaks available in print. You could do it yourself, though I doubt it would work as well as it did in 3e. Personal taste there, though. Good point about the Far Realm being more common in 4e - that IS a selling point of the game, and I had forgotten it. But, anything Cthuluesque in 4e is aimed more towards the combat encounter, as opposed to the "Weeping in a corner and praying" encounter. Good point. But in my experiences, daily powers are not that great, especially in a survival horror setting where it's usually the PCs against many smaller enemies. Healing surges are more important, and I can see how they would contribute to survival horror; but, in other editions, this would be covered by the fact that PCs cannot self-heal, and have a limited amount of healing resources available to them... the choice being "do I heal now, and waste our last CLW on me, or do I go into the next fight wounded and save that CLW for an emergency?" Well, part of my problem with 4e investigative games has to do with the limited skill list - fewer skills mean that there's more PC overlap. And rituals, while useful, do nothing to encourage PC versatility. After all, any PC that has the ritual caster feat would basically have access to all the same rituals as everyone else (since there's no reason why PCs shouldn't share). So, the only differences between characters would be generally in the skills they chose... and if you have a skill that I don't have, odds are we're only +5 or so different anyways. Compare this to 3e, where different classes offered different spells, and there was a wider range of skills to select from. It was, in effect, easier for each character to specialize. I realize 3e wasn't the greatest for an investigation game, either (especially at higher levels!), but I feel it runs better for purposes of long-term play, as each PC will have their own niche. It'd require a few tweaks! But, it could be done - but then, any system, appropriately tweaked, can cover anything. I realize you can use 4e to run a historical game... my question is really, how much tweaking would be necessary? Low magic/history hasn't been easy for most editions of D&D, 3e and 4e in particular. And that's cool with me. But you CAN do it... it was pretty easy in 2e, especially if you used the historical supplements. You could drop the wizard and cleric from the game, and the game would still run. You can't do that in 3e, because the game sort of assumes the presence of a healer, and builds that into the CR/encounter design. It's easier in 4e, because the game doesn't assume a fully "balanced" party in encounter design... but I don't think it'd run as smoothly as it did in 2e. That being said, I think it'd be fun giving it a shot! (Tweaking a game is fun, after all) You're right, and I *am* being unfair to 4e. I'm comparing it to games that have had years of design behind them - of course 3e will have more supplements that allow Cthuluesque horror, for example. But, I don't think it's too early to discuss what 4e can or cannot handle. I believe we have a pretty good idea of where 4e is at, and where it's heading - and the focus on combat seems to be holding the course. God, that *IS* a scary thought. I was thinking about how cool 4e DARK SUN would be, but now you've scared me. You really do make a point... *shudder* [/QUOTE]
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