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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4668061" data-attributes="member: 2067">Direct 4e experience. Directly trying to use Skill Challenges, in fact, for almost all of the session (since the session was involving a complimentary fey and some wrongly accused orcs and some angry townsfolk, combat wasn't much of an option for the PC's).I'm not ignorant about this. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />That's a fair criticism. But there are solutions that don't depend on getting rid of these elements (rather, working them deeper into the fabric of the game would be the way to go, IMO). I would have loved it, too, if 4e would have given a more in-depth consideration of these different genres and styles than 3e or 2e or 1e did. Imagine an investigative game where Detect Evil and Locate Object and Speak with Dead were all challenges that every character could contribute to in a unique way, like combat is in 4e, rather than being &quot;I win&quot; buttons. This was entirely within the realm of possibility for 4e.It kind of went the other way, though...rather than making these things easier to run, they just said &quot;don't bother running them, and if you have to, try this subsystem maybe?&quot; When you try the subsystem, you find that it's not really up to snuff, encouraging you to go with the first option more often than not: just don't do these things in D&amp;D. I prefer my D&amp;D adaptable, and, it must be said again, that 4e could do this. The only thing stopping the designers is their own idea of what 4e is and what 4e should be.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 4668061, member: 2067"] Direct 4e experience. Directly trying to use Skill Challenges, in fact, for almost all of the session (since the session was involving a complimentary fey and some wrongly accused orcs and some angry townsfolk, combat wasn't much of an option for the PC's). I'm not ignorant about this. ;) That's a fair criticism. But there are solutions that don't depend on getting rid of these elements (rather, working them deeper into the fabric of the game would be the way to go, IMO). I would have loved it, too, if 4e would have given a more in-depth consideration of these different genres and styles than 3e or 2e or 1e did. Imagine an investigative game where Detect Evil and Locate Object and Speak with Dead were all challenges that every character could contribute to in a unique way, like combat is in 4e, rather than being "I win" buttons. This was entirely within the realm of possibility for 4e. It kind of went the other way, though...rather than making these things easier to run, they just said "don't bother running them, and if you have to, try this subsystem maybe?" When you try the subsystem, you find that it's not really up to snuff, encouraging you to go with the first option more often than not: just don't do these things in D&D. I prefer my D&D adaptable, and, it must be said again, that 4e [B]could[/B] do this. The only thing stopping the designers is their own idea of what 4e is and what 4e should be. [/QUOTE]

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