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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4668432" data-attributes="member: 2067">People see the same thing in combat roles, though -- one character can't heal, sneak attack, mark, and use fireball all with equal proficiency, so people see that as pigeonholing and limiting.Basically, less is only more if you want less. In a campaign focusing on combat, you don't want that much noncombat stuff gumming up the works and you only need quick resolution rules for things. In this respect, 4e works fine, but that doesn't make noncombat more fun, it just makes it get out of the way faster so that the fun part of the game is done more. It makes it less of a problem, but if it wasn't a problem to begin with, it breaks it further.That weakens the support to do "everything else." But when it comes to actually putting those to use to influence the game, all those choices are meaningless. It's a similar beast to railroading: whichever path you go down, you'll get to the same thing. Whatever skill you choose, whatever training or focus or utility power you have, it doesn't make you any different in the skill challenge. They never said you had to use anything. They did say that the skill challenge was there to help you resolve conflicts that didn't involve combat, but it fails to do that in a satisfying way.No more so than it is to design combat encounters. They're both forms of resolving conflict.And combat is just an elaborate "attack check." It's usually not very fun just being taken along for the DM's ride.Less isn't more, though. Less is less. It's only great if you want to do less of it. Not every campaign style and genre wants less noncombat resolution. For 4e to assume this is the case across the board is for 4e to be absolutely wrong, and rather limited (not that it has to stay that way). This was, effectively, the OP's finding: If you want to resolve conflict without fighting things, 4e is worse than earlier editions. Conversely, if you want to do a beat-down, 4e rocks.IMO, videogames rock more than 4e for combat, and my D&D games were never about combat (though combat was a necessary element to them).</blockquote>

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