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<blockquote data-quote="RefinedBean" data-source="post: 4668449" data-attributes="member: 55016">Well, people are...dismissive, maybe.&nbsp; This is what MCing is exactly for.&nbsp; And MCing helps both combat and non-combat aspects in 4E (and 3E, if I remember correctly).I see what you're saying here, but if you're running a non-combat oriented game, why would you use ANY edition of D&amp;D?&nbsp; Plenty of other games provide an epic feel with little focus on combat.&nbsp; 4E gives you what you need to do non-combat stuff, without hassle or pointless mechanics (skill challenges being an exception, based on opinion).&nbsp; Skills.&nbsp; Rituals.&nbsp; Villains.&nbsp; Drama.&nbsp; It's all there.Perhaps.&nbsp; Or maybe that &quot;everything else&quot; doesn't need any support.&nbsp; Heck, in my opinion, I think skills are pretty pointless, but they remain.&nbsp; We probably just have a difference of opinion stemming from play-styles here.I don't see it that way.&nbsp; The skills presented allow for quite a bit of flexibility in how they're presented by various characters, in my opinion.How does it fail, other than the mechanics needing to be eratta'd?&nbsp; My groups have had nothing but fun with skill challenges.&nbsp; One thing I love about them is they can be extended and hidden from the players, or plain to all, depending on what mood is called for.True, except that there's probably a better chance of a character dying in a combat encounter than a non-combat one, which means most players enjoy a bevy of options in-combat to make things go their way.&nbsp; Out of combat, things are a bit looser, and players can take a simple system and run with it (i.e. skills)Well, you got me there.&nbsp; Maybe this whole &quot;check&quot; thing is a problem.Never said that was the outcome.&nbsp; All I'm saying is non-combat encounters in D&amp;D, no matter how complex, are basically 1 part RP, 1 part skill check, thrown into a giant stew that the DM is stirring.&nbsp; 4E seems to have realized this, and gives us a small set of tools for non-combat encounters that I find highly adequate.&nbsp; But your opinion differs, and that's fine.And I think the OP is wrong.&nbsp; If characters want to resolve things in 4E without fighting things, they're perfectly able to.&nbsp; What's stopping them?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="RefinedBean, post: 4668449, member: 55016"] Well, people are...dismissive, maybe. This is what MCing is exactly for. And MCing helps both combat and non-combat aspects in 4E (and 3E, if I remember correctly). I see what you're saying here, but if you're running a non-combat oriented game, why would you use ANY edition of D&D? Plenty of other games provide an epic feel with little focus on combat. 4E gives you what you need to do non-combat stuff, without hassle or pointless mechanics (skill challenges being an exception, based on opinion). Skills. Rituals. Villains. Drama. It's all there. Perhaps. Or maybe that "everything else" doesn't need any support. Heck, in my opinion, I think skills are pretty pointless, but they remain. We probably just have a difference of opinion stemming from play-styles here. I don't see it that way. The skills presented allow for quite a bit of flexibility in how they're presented by various characters, in my opinion. How does it fail, other than the mechanics needing to be eratta'd? My groups have had nothing but fun with skill challenges. One thing I love about them is they can be extended and hidden from the players, or plain to all, depending on what mood is called for. True, except that there's probably a better chance of a character dying in a combat encounter than a non-combat one, which means most players enjoy a bevy of options in-combat to make things go their way. Out of combat, things are a bit looser, and players can take a simple system and run with it (i.e. skills) Well, you got me there. Maybe this whole "check" thing is a problem. Never said that was the outcome. All I'm saying is non-combat encounters in D&D, no matter how complex, are basically 1 part RP, 1 part skill check, thrown into a giant stew that the DM is stirring. 4E seems to have realized this, and gives us a small set of tools for non-combat encounters that I find highly adequate. But your opinion differs, and that's fine. And I think the OP is wrong. If characters want to resolve things in 4E without fighting things, they're perfectly able to. What's stopping them? [/QUOTE]

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