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<blockquote data-quote="Thasmodious" data-source="post: 4668700" data-attributes="member: 63272">Oh, I am definitely not.&nbsp; No worries there.&nbsp; I was just objecting to Midgets language implying that every last element in 4e that is not combat oriented has been factually established as &quot;sucking&quot;.&nbsp; They don't.There are a lot more errors fixed from the Combat and Powers sections than anywhere else, so using it as proof of lack of attention falls flat.&nbsp; Throw in the hype over skill challenges, as they were being talked up long before release, Mearls was going on about them for months before release, and continues afterward.&nbsp; Like I said, I've had nothing but success with them, even before modifying the math. Those, at least burning hands, were uses outside of the descriptions as well.&nbsp; That was before and is now up to the DM, but there is no rule or reason to not allow such things now if you allowed such things before.This, as in 3e and previous editions, is up to the DM.&nbsp; As I said, if the DM allowed it before, what's to stop him now.&nbsp; Certainly no rule found in 4e that says you can't do things like this.I think that's a bit ...light.&nbsp; Just the presence of Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate show a huge intention towards social design, something BECMI did not have.&nbsp; These skills were among the better additions of 3e as it let players build characters with the intention of being good at social situations.&nbsp; This carries through in 4e and is strongly, strongly enhanced with skill challenges.&nbsp; Rather than a single roll, you can play out an entire evenings worth of social interaction, backed by firm character mechanics.&nbsp; It's hard to support the argument you are making when you look at things like this.&nbsp; I understand perfectly well what you're saying.&nbsp; I disagree, completely.&nbsp; It does because the systems involved are clunky.&nbsp; Skills are based on static DCs unless its opposed, so things are often impossible or far too easy.&nbsp; Social situations too often come down to a single die roll, rather than a complex encounter where the group must work together, play to their strengths, and apply themselves.&nbsp; Craft skills?&nbsp; Don't get me started, clunky and unworkable for what it intended to do. 4e is fluid in non-combat situations where 3e was not, mechanically.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Thasmodious, post: 4668700, member: 63272"] Oh, I am definitely not. No worries there. I was just objecting to Midgets language implying that every last element in 4e that is not combat oriented has been factually established as "sucking". They don't. There are a lot more errors fixed from the Combat and Powers sections than anywhere else, so using it as proof of lack of attention falls flat. Throw in the hype over skill challenges, as they were being talked up long before release, Mearls was going on about them for months before release, and continues afterward. Like I said, I've had nothing but success with them, even before modifying the math. Those, at least burning hands, were uses outside of the descriptions as well. That was before and is now up to the DM, but there is no rule or reason to not allow such things now if you allowed such things before. This, as in 3e and previous editions, is up to the DM. As I said, if the DM allowed it before, what's to stop him now. Certainly no rule found in 4e that says you can't do things like this. I think that's a bit ...light. Just the presence of Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate show a huge intention towards social design, something BECMI did not have. These skills were among the better additions of 3e as it let players build characters with the intention of being good at social situations. This carries through in 4e and is strongly, strongly enhanced with skill challenges. Rather than a single roll, you can play out an entire evenings worth of social interaction, backed by firm character mechanics. It's hard to support the argument you are making when you look at things like this. I understand perfectly well what you're saying. I [I]disagree, [/I]completely. It does because the systems involved are clunky. Skills are based on static DCs unless its opposed, so things are often impossible or far too easy. Social situations too often come down to a single die roll, rather than a complex encounter where the group must work together, play to their strengths, and apply themselves. Craft skills? Don't get me started, clunky and unworkable for what it intended to do. 4e is fluid in non-combat situations where 3e was not, mechanically. [/QUOTE]

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