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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Thasmodious" data-source="post: 4669453" data-attributes="member: 63272">And your point is wrong.  4e does it better than previous editions of D&D, but still worse than a great number of other system choices if the focus of your campaign is noncombat.4e does noncombat better than previous versions of D&D.This claim is unsupportable.  You still won't find any two groups that are the same and 4e does noncombat better than previous editions of D&D. Which is to have the best combat system D&D has yet had coupled with the most involved and fluid noncombat system yet.  I like the combat system, too.Yes.  Unfortunately, no other edition of D&D gives you more detail because this is not the focus of any edition of D&D.  This is where a gamer's imagination comes in.  It is gamer's imagination that has led to so many different ways of playing D&D over the years.  4e didn't take any of that way and it frees the game from the unnecessary constraints of the 3e system.4e didn't decrease the noncombat rules.  It increased their functionality and streamlined their presentation while making them more exciting, fun, and tense.Your assertion doesn't hold up to any level of scrutiny.You don't know anything about my games.  That I've actually used skill challenges numerous times shows that I do, indeed, do a lot of non-combat.  My games certainly feature combat, we are roleplaying adventurers, after all.  My games are pretty heavily roleplay focused, in and out of combat, and my group enjoys a lot of involved noncombat activity.  I've used skill challenges to see if the group, invited as guests to a feast given by the local ruler, could impress said ruler and gain his favor; to determine what kind of impression the group could make on the townspeople in the first couple weeks, having established a base of operations as a mercenary company; more than once in a hybrid situation along with combat; to play out a duel of wits and song between a PC musician and a rival bard; to cover days of exploration searching for an ancient temple in a barren landscape; to handle the PCs scaling a dangerous mountain to an ancient fortress while avoiding detection from enemy patrols.  That you think skill challenges don't work shows your inexperience and lack of understanding of the subsystem and what it brings to the game.  I understand skill challenges inside and out, and more importantly, I get the intent of the system, so I can use it in a very flexible manner to handle just about anything.    As for open ended rules, 4e is a lot more open ended than 3e, which is one of its strengths.  It restored the game to its 1e state of DM empowerment and unshackled us from the constraints of 3es player mastery/rules lawyering.</blockquote>

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