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<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 4669539" data-attributes="member: 5143">I know I am.&nbsp; There are times for lots of rules and times for very few.&nbsp; Open ended rules are better in some circumstances than others, but I'm ok with using them for the whole game.I understand the rest of your argument and agree with you.&nbsp; I'm just wondering what was more robust about 3e or 2e or whatever?&nbsp; So far, the way I run non-combat encounters from 1e through 4e hasn't changed almost at all:The PCs need to find the clues in a room with a dead body, apparently murdered.&nbsp; There is a murder weapon in the back yard.1e:DM: &quot;Where are you searching?&quot;Players: &quot;We take a look around the room.&quot;DM: &quot;You see a dead body, a blood pool, and the back door is open.&quot;Players: &quot;We search the back yard.&quot;DM: &quot;You find a knife covered in blood.&quot;2e: Exactly the same as 1e, there are no NWPs that really apply to this situation, at least none that I'm remembering right now.&nbsp; If there is one, you can make them make a roll to discover the knife.3e: DM: &quot;Where are you searching?&quot;Players: &quot;We take a look around the room.&quot;DM: &quot;Make a Search check.&quot;Players: &quot;The highest check is 15, we take 20, everyone aids for a total of 43.&quot;DM: &quot;You see a dead body, a blood pool, and the back door is open.&quot;Players: &quot;We search the back yard.&quot;DM: &quot;Make a Search check.&quot;Players: &quot;The highest check is 15, we take 20, everyone aids for a total of 43.&quot;DM: &quot;You find a knife covered in blood.&quot;4e:DM: &quot;What's the highest passive perception?&quot;Players: &quot;22&quot;DM: &quot;You see a dead body, a blood pool, and the back door is open.&quot;Players: &quot;We search the room to make sure we aren't missing anything.&quot;DM: &quot;Make a Perception check.&quot;Players: &quot;The highest check is +15, we can just assume we get 20 out of combat.&quot;DM: &quot;You don't see anything else.&quot;Players: &quot;We search the back yard.&quot;DM: &quot;Since you get 35 on your Perception you find a knife covered in blood.&quot;The same thing applies to a number of other situations:Diplomacy/Negotiation/Haggling: 1e-Roleplay with a (possible)Cha check, 2e-same as 1e, 3e-Roleplay with a Diplomacy check, 4e-same as 3eSneaking in/out of somewhere: 1e-The Thief makes a Move Silently check(everyone else can't succeed or simply freeforms it), 2e-same as 1e, 3e-Everyone makes Hide and Move Silently checks, 4e-Everyone makes Stealth checks</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 4669539, member: 5143"] I know I am. There are times for lots of rules and times for very few. Open ended rules are better in some circumstances than others, but I'm ok with using them for the whole game. I understand the rest of your argument and agree with you. I'm just wondering what was more robust about 3e or 2e or whatever? So far, the way I run non-combat encounters from 1e through 4e hasn't changed almost at all: The PCs need to find the clues in a room with a dead body, apparently murdered. There is a murder weapon in the back yard. 1e: DM: "Where are you searching?" Players: "We take a look around the room." DM: "You see a dead body, a blood pool, and the back door is open." Players: "We search the back yard." DM: "You find a knife covered in blood." 2e: Exactly the same as 1e, there are no NWPs that really apply to this situation, at least none that I'm remembering right now. If there is one, you can make them make a roll to discover the knife. 3e: DM: "Where are you searching?" Players: "We take a look around the room." DM: "Make a Search check." Players: "The highest check is 15, we take 20, everyone aids for a total of 43." DM: "You see a dead body, a blood pool, and the back door is open." Players: "We search the back yard." DM: "Make a Search check." Players: "The highest check is 15, we take 20, everyone aids for a total of 43." DM: "You find a knife covered in blood." 4e: DM: "What's the highest passive perception?" Players: "22" DM: "You see a dead body, a blood pool, and the back door is open." Players: "We search the room to make sure we aren't missing anything." DM: "Make a Perception check." Players: "The highest check is +15, we can just assume we get 20 out of combat." DM: "You don't see anything else." Players: "We search the back yard." DM: "Since you get 35 on your Perception you find a knife covered in blood." The same thing applies to a number of other situations: Diplomacy/Negotiation/Haggling: 1e-Roleplay with a (possible)Cha check, 2e-same as 1e, 3e-Roleplay with a Diplomacy check, 4e-same as 3e Sneaking in/out of somewhere: 1e-The Thief makes a Move Silently check(everyone else can't succeed or simply freeforms it), 2e-same as 1e, 3e-Everyone makes Hide and Move Silently checks, 4e-Everyone makes Stealth checks [/QUOTE]

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