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<blockquote data-quote="Wik" data-source="post: 4670438" data-attributes="member: 40177">Lane:&nbsp; yeah, Charm Person can be a combat spell.&nbsp; I never really saw it as such, though, in common play.&nbsp; You cannot, after all, use the charmed foe to attack his allies, and he's still going to protect them.You've pretty much got the jist of what 4e has done with the non-combat element of hte game.&nbsp; Some of the spells have been made into rituals (Which cost money, take time, and are very widely accessible to the party... I think this is a good idea with Raise Dead scrolls, and a bad idea in most other ways).&nbsp; The rest have gone bye-bye.The other big problem is that when something is pure mechanics, there's sort of a vibe that I get (and my players get it, too) that it's hard to bend the mechanics of the effect to fit the flavour.&nbsp; Cleave, for example, is described as cutting through one foe to hit another... can I use my cleave to hit one foe, and then cut a nearby rope?&nbsp; And so on.&nbsp; Truth be told, I'm tempted to just drop both 3e and 4e, and play BECMI.&nbsp; Most of my favourite D&amp;D memories happened there, or in DARK SUN.&nbsp; Keep the things I like from 4e (already posted my list), and revert to an earlier edition.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Wik, post: 4670438, member: 40177"] Lane: yeah, Charm Person can be a combat spell. I never really saw it as such, though, in common play. You cannot, after all, use the charmed foe to attack his allies, and he's still going to protect them. You've pretty much got the jist of what 4e has done with the non-combat element of hte game. Some of the spells have been made into rituals (Which cost money, take time, and are very widely accessible to the party... I think this is a good idea with Raise Dead scrolls, and a bad idea in most other ways). The rest have gone bye-bye. The other big problem is that when something is pure mechanics, there's sort of a vibe that I get (and my players get it, too) that it's hard to bend the mechanics of the effect to fit the flavour. Cleave, for example, is described as cutting through one foe to hit another... can I use my cleave to hit one foe, and then cut a nearby rope? And so on. Truth be told, I'm tempted to just drop both 3e and 4e, and play BECMI. Most of my favourite D&D memories happened there, or in DARK SUN. Keep the things I like from 4e (already posted my list), and revert to an earlier edition. [/QUOTE]

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