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<blockquote data-quote="Mallus" data-source="post: 4670996" data-attributes="member: 3887">Now, now... you know that non-combats skills exist in 4e. Where are the rules that cover this in 3e? I don't remember seeing any target DC's for ale-tasting in any of the books I own.In 4e no ranks means roll primary ability+1/2 level+ any modifiers the DM chooses to assign. Also, the &quot;I'm a master brewer too!&quot; problem can be neatly sidestepped by not gaming with people who act like spoiled children. You need to stop thinking everyone games with people who act like spoiled children.Or if you're comfortable accepting ad-hoc DM rulings for things not directly covered by the rules. Given just how often that happens when my friends and I play D&amp;D, I'm pretty comfortable, but YMMV... My 4e paladin is a poet. When he needs to make a skill check we use Diplomacy --for his performance in slams-- Insight --for composing works that peer into the soul-- and raw CHA checks, to cover anything else. It's not contempt, it's just efficiency. How big would the skill list/system have to be to cover every oddball, outlier concept that a gamer might want to make? --and I say this a gamer with a large number of oddball, outlier characters to his credit. The 4e designers chose to focus on common, adventuring skills. Seems reasonable to me, given the alternative... trying to cover, in some meaningful way, everything else.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mallus, post: 4670996, member: 3887"] Now, now... you know that non-combats skills exist in 4e. Where are the rules that cover this in 3e? I don't remember seeing any target DC's for ale-tasting in any of the books I own. In 4e no ranks means roll primary ability+1/2 level+ any modifiers the DM chooses to assign. Also, the "I'm a master brewer too!" problem can be neatly sidestepped by not gaming with people who act like spoiled children. You need to stop thinking everyone games with people who act like spoiled children. Or if you're comfortable accepting ad-hoc DM rulings for things not directly covered by the rules. Given just how often that happens when my friends and I play D&D, I'm pretty comfortable, but YMMV... My 4e paladin is a poet. When he needs to make a skill check we use Diplomacy --for his performance in slams-- Insight --for composing works that peer into the soul-- and raw CHA checks, to cover anything else. It's not contempt, it's just efficiency. How [i]big[/i] would the skill list/system have to be to cover every oddball, outlier concept that a gamer might want to make? --and I say this a gamer with a large number of oddball, outlier characters to his credit. The 4e designers chose to focus on common, adventuring skills. Seems reasonable to me, given the alternative... trying to cover, in some meaningful way, everything else. [/QUOTE]

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