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<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 4671734" data-attributes="member: 7635">I'm going to guess your games feature A LOT of city-based, &quot;lets-split-up&quot; style of gaming.I think the general argument we're having boils down to this.&quot;I want a PC who has some training in open locks, a bit of training in sleight of hand, and a lot of training in disable device, and no real skill in forgery.&quot;&quot;Meh, I want a decent score in thievery in case I need to make any of those checks. I'll take training in it.&quot;Personally, I've found D&amp;D at the former micro-management level to be boring and tedious. However, I can understand how some people love to grind out every last skill point, feat, and such. Where we've missed point is on effectiveness vs. &quot;vanity&quot;, where the former makes senses mechanically (it makes sense for your typical 5 person party to max out a variety of different skills, with little/no overlap) the latter can sometimes be rewarding (see the ranger/psion and his stealth skills). There are a lot of people who are arguing the former is much better for gameplay (having a PC who has a near-certain chance of success in the party generally is sufficient coverage of said skill) based on the escalation of DCs for many skills (such as disable device, open lock, diplomacy or opposed skills) vs having a few insurance points in case that roll gets called upon (so you have a minor edge if you find yourself talking to someone while the bard is neutralized). The latter can be rewarding though for those who either believe it &quot;fits the PC&quot; or &quot;wants a chance to roll a 20&quot; on a skill check.Neither is wrong, but I generally prefer having PC trained a selection of broad skills (as a DM) since I feel I can call on a variety of different tasks and know my PCs have a good chance at making the skill checks without worrying about vast differences in skill (-2 vs. +13) and not having proper training (sorry, knowledge: nobility in trained only). However, I don't like fiddly systems, pick 4-6 skills and lets roll.As always YMMV.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 4671734, member: 7635"] I'm going to guess your games feature A LOT of city-based, "lets-split-up" style of gaming. I think the general argument we're having boils down to this. "I want a PC who has some training in open locks, a bit of training in sleight of hand, and a lot of training in disable device, and no real skill in forgery." "Meh, I want a decent score in thievery in case I need to make any of those checks. I'll take training in it." Personally, I've found D&D at the former micro-management level to be boring and tedious. However, I can understand how some people love to grind out every last skill point, feat, and such. Where we've missed point is on effectiveness vs. "vanity", where the former makes senses mechanically (it makes sense for your typical 5 person party to max out a variety of different skills, with little/no overlap) the latter can sometimes be rewarding (see the ranger/psion and his stealth skills). There are a lot of people who are arguing the former is much better for gameplay (having a PC who has a near-certain chance of success in the party generally is sufficient coverage of said skill) based on the escalation of DCs for many skills (such as disable device, open lock, diplomacy or opposed skills) vs having a few insurance points in case that roll gets called upon (so you have a minor edge if you find yourself talking to someone while the bard is neutralized). The latter can be rewarding though for those who either believe it "fits the PC" or "wants a chance to roll a 20" on a skill check. Neither is wrong, but I generally prefer having PC trained a selection of broad skills (as a DM) since I feel I can call on a variety of different tasks and know my PCs have a good chance at making the skill checks without worrying about vast differences in skill (-2 vs. +13) and not having proper training (sorry, knowledge: nobility in trained only). However, I don't like fiddly systems, pick 4-6 skills and lets roll. As always YMMV. [/QUOTE]

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