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<blockquote data-quote="Lizard" data-source="post: 4673534" data-attributes="member: 1054">This is an area where the DMG could have used quite a few more examples. Because, to a lot of DMs, you're NOT giving them every lock in the world -- you're giving them a seemingly arbitrary DC and no tools to help convey the world TO the players in a way which makes it make sense. You seem to be saying, &quot;It's limiting to make DMs pick 'adamantine door' from a list if they need a door to challenge a 20th level party -- we should just say 20th level doors have a Break DC of 30. Then the DM can make up whatever kind of door he wants.&quot; The problem is, it can be hard, especially for newbie DMs, to &quot;make up&quot; an appropriate door (or lock, or surface to climb, or whatever), and the &quot;Level-&gt;DC&quot; chart doesn't do much to fire the imagination. I know that if I saw a list of, say, six doors with DCs from 10 to 40, I'd be a lot more likely to make up a dozen more than if I just saw a generic DC by level chart. A tiny nudge to the imagination can go a long, long, way, and it also helps make the world more real. A list of &quot;typical challenges&quot; at DCs 10, 15, 20, etc, for various skills, would be very helpful. I think a lot of DMs start with a cool idea, vision, etc, and would like to know &quot;how hard would that be&quot;, instead of starting with &quot;I want a DC 20 challenge&quot; and working forward to thinking what it should look like. Sure, a tremendous amount of D&amp;D (or any RPG) is pure illusion, all handwaving and &quot;magician's choice&quot;. The more obvious the illusion is, though, the less fun it is. The players need to suspend disbelief, too -- they need to believe the door is made of treant wood and banded with iron dragon skin because that's how it was built a thousand years ago, not because they're 20th level and that's the level of door they're going to be challenged by. They need to believe if they'd found that door 10 levels back, it would have been impassable, and if they find it 10 levels from now, they will laugh at it. The world must feel like it exists beyond the game table, beyond the PCs -- that they're walking through a world, not standing still on the holodeck as the world forms around them.At least, that's what I try to do, for better or worse, in my games, and since my players keep coming back, I must be doing something right.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lizard, post: 4673534, member: 1054"] This is an area where the DMG could have used quite a few more examples. Because, to a lot of DMs, you're NOT giving them every lock in the world -- you're giving them a seemingly arbitrary DC and no tools to help convey the world TO the players in a way which makes it make sense. You seem to be saying, "It's limiting to make DMs pick 'adamantine door' from a list if they need a door to challenge a 20th level party -- we should just say 20th level doors have a Break DC of 30. Then the DM can make up whatever kind of door he wants." The problem is, it can be hard, especially for newbie DMs, to "make up" an appropriate door (or lock, or surface to climb, or whatever), and the "Level->DC" chart doesn't do much to fire the imagination. I know that if I saw a list of, say, six doors with DCs from 10 to 40, I'd be a lot more likely to make up a dozen more than if I just saw a generic DC by level chart. A tiny nudge to the imagination can go a long, long, way, and it also helps make the world more real. A list of "typical challenges" at DCs 10, 15, 20, etc, for various skills, would be very helpful. I think a lot of DMs start with a cool idea, vision, etc, and would like to know "how hard would that be", instead of starting with "I want a DC 20 challenge" and working forward to thinking what it should look like. Sure, a tremendous amount of D&D (or any RPG) is pure illusion, all handwaving and "magician's choice". The more obvious the illusion is, though, the less fun it is. The players need to suspend disbelief, too -- they need to believe the door is made of treant wood and banded with iron dragon skin because that's how it was built a thousand years ago, not because they're 20th level and that's the level of door they're going to be challenged by. They need to believe if they'd found that door 10 levels back, it would have been impassable, and if they find it 10 levels from now, they will laugh at it. The world must feel like it exists beyond the game table, beyond the PCs -- that they're walking through a world, not standing still on the holodeck as the world forms around them. At least, that's what I try to do, for better or worse, in my games, and since my players keep coming back, I must be doing something right. [/QUOTE]

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