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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 4673658" data-attributes="member: 48965">Ok what I mean is this...&nbsp;Open Lock&nbsp;Heroic Tier 20Paragon Tier 30Epic Tier 35&nbsp;As opposed to...&nbsp;Climb DC's...Surface&nbsp;Ladder 0Rope 10Uneven Surface (Cave Wall) 15Rough Surface (Brick Wall) 20Slippery Surface +5Unusually Smooth Surface +5&nbsp;It's a consistency issue. In one example the DC's are derived through an objective comparison of negative attributes that effect the difficulty... in the other it is abstracted into &quot;tiers&quot; which honestly mean what? All I'm saying is that there would have been less confusion if they had stuck with a single way of setting DC's... either as tiers or as the negative attributes that affect the skill.&nbsp;&nbsp;No, they're not. The reason for the increase in DC is not defined for this skill, like it is for Climb and that is my point. When you look at the climb skill it lists the negative attributes, as examples of what causes the DC to climb a wall to become harder... this isn't explained with OL...unless Paragon is a negative quality that causes locks to become harder to open. &nbsp;You interpreted it a certain way to mean a certain thing... but as has been evidenced by other posters it wasn't made exactly clear and could be interpreted (the same way as the skill chart, and no the DMG doesn't explicitely say that these numbers are based on challenges of this level) in different ways.&nbsp;As an example... couldn't a lock whose mechanism had rusted or become clogged, or even had a lockpick broken off inside of it have become harder to open?&nbsp; So then is this a paragon-tier lock just like the one of better quality... if so then the tiers don't necessarily represent the increasing quality of the lock.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 4673658, member: 48965"] Ok what I mean is this... Open Lock Heroic Tier 20 Paragon Tier 30 Epic Tier 35 As opposed to... Climb DC's... Surface Ladder 0 Rope 10 Uneven Surface (Cave Wall) 15 Rough Surface (Brick Wall) 20 Slippery Surface +5 Unusually Smooth Surface +5 It's a consistency issue. In one example the DC's are derived through an objective comparison of negative attributes that effect the difficulty... in the other it is abstracted into "tiers" which honestly mean what? All I'm saying is that there would have been less confusion if they had stuck with a single way of setting DC's... either as tiers or as the negative attributes that affect the skill. No, they're not. The reason for the increase in DC is not defined for this skill, like it is for Climb and that is my point. When you look at the climb skill it lists the negative attributes, as examples of what causes the DC to climb a wall to become harder... this isn't explained with OL...unless Paragon is a negative quality that causes locks to become harder to open. You interpreted it a certain way to mean a certain thing... but as has been evidenced by other posters it wasn't made exactly clear and could be interpreted (the same way as the skill chart, and no the DMG doesn't explicitely say that these numbers are based on challenges of this level) in different ways. As an example... couldn't a lock whose mechanism had rusted or become clogged, or even had a lockpick broken off inside of it have become harder to open? So then is this a paragon-tier lock just like the one of better quality... if so then the tiers don't necessarily represent the increasing quality of the lock. [/QUOTE]

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