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<blockquote data-quote="D'karr" data-source="post: 4674172" data-attributes="member: 336">Well, obviously they didn't do a good job of that, or more than half the &quot;arguments&quot; on this thread alone would be invalid.Some people understood that the table shows DCs for what an Easy, Moderate, and Hard challenge should be at each level.&nbsp; Then there were some others that understood it to be that the a specific task that had a DC 5 at level 1 should now be DC 19 at level 25.&nbsp; The second group is left scratching their heads.So it obviously should have been better explained.&nbsp; However, arguing that WotC is saying that the same task becomes harder as you go up in level completely misses the point of the guidelines.As for providing a table with every single type of &quot;lock&quot;, I disagree.&nbsp; They have already provided a table that can be used to create that table many times over.With the table on page 42, I can easily ascertain on the fly what type of &quot;CHALLENGE&quot; would be appropriate for the characters and I have 3 different difficulty settings (Easy, Moderate, or Hard).So if my players are level 1 and they are sneaking into the Sewers of Despair (a level 1 dungeon) and they find a lock all I have to do is decide if opening the lock (the challenge) is going to be Easy, Moderate, or Hard.&nbsp; I decide that this particular lock is easy, so the DC is 5.&nbsp; A trained character can do it with his eyes closed.On their second foray into the Sewers of Despair, opening that lock will still be a DC 5.&nbsp; If they return to the Sewers of Despair (A level 1 dungeon) when they are level 10, the lock should still be a DC 5 lock, but by that point it is not even a challenge, even the untrained guys do not need to roll to open it.However, when the 10th level party goes into the Sewers of Insanity (a 10th level dungeon) the challenges should most probably be designed for their level.&nbsp; If I design using the same methodology it allows me to still challenge them at that level, just not with the same trappings.&nbsp; I could have described the &quot;cheap lock&quot; in the level 1 adventure as being so thin that a sharp tug simply opened it.&nbsp; Now the party is faced with a &quot;cheap lock&quot; that though slightly tougher still easily opens for those trained in the skill.As someone mentioned, the table on page 42 does not give you &quot;6&quot; locks.&nbsp; It gives the DM the potential to create 30 different locks each with a different level of difficulty.&nbsp; By not &quot;defining&quot; each iteration, the designers did not &quot;confine&quot; the DM to just their predetermined table with 6 locks.In addition, with the encounter design philosophy that 4e adopts, you could have a really tough challenging &quot;lock&quot; included as part of an encounter.&nbsp; What if that door that you are trying to get through to escape the host of troglodytes that just surrounded you, is not an easy, level appropriate challenge but a hard one and to top it off is 4 levels higher than your current level?&nbsp; All of a sudden that DC went from 5 to 19.&nbsp; Add some circumstance modifiers, like rain or low-visibility and all of a sudden the trained rogue might need a 14 or 15 on his roll to open that lock.&nbsp; That is what the table on page 42 enables.&nbsp; Personally I prefer that to a static DC of X on a table of 6 locks.Could it have been explained better?&nbsp; Yes.&nbsp; But are the tools provided inadequate?&nbsp; No, not by a long shot.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="D'karr, post: 4674172, member: 336"] Well, obviously they didn't do a good job of that, or more than half the "arguments" on this thread alone would be invalid. Some people understood that the table shows DCs for what an Easy, Moderate, and Hard [B]challenge[/B] should be at each level. Then there were some others that understood it to be that the a specific task that had a DC 5 at level 1 should now be DC 19 at level 25. The second group is left scratching their heads. So it obviously should have been better explained. However, arguing that WotC is saying that the same task becomes harder as you go up in level completely misses the point of the guidelines. As for providing a table with every single type of "lock", I disagree. They have already provided a table that can be used to create that table many times over. With the table on page 42, I can easily ascertain on the fly what type of "CHALLENGE" would be appropriate for the characters and I have 3 different difficulty settings (Easy, Moderate, or Hard). So if my players are level 1 and they are sneaking into the Sewers of Despair (a level 1 dungeon) and they find a lock all I have to do is decide if opening the lock (the challenge) is going to be Easy, Moderate, or Hard. I decide that this particular lock is easy, so the DC is 5. A trained character can do it with his eyes closed. On their second foray into the Sewers of Despair, opening that lock will still be a DC 5. If they return to the Sewers of Despair (A level 1 dungeon) when they are level 10, the lock should still be a DC 5 lock, but by that point it is not even a challenge, even the untrained guys do not need to roll to open it. However, when the 10th level party goes into the Sewers of Insanity (a 10th level dungeon) the [B]challenges[/B] should most probably be designed for their level. If I design using the same methodology it allows me to still challenge them at that level, just not with the same trappings. I could have described the "cheap lock" in the level 1 adventure as being so thin that a sharp tug simply opened it. Now the party is faced with a "cheap lock" that though slightly tougher still easily opens for those trained in the skill. As someone mentioned, the table on page 42 does not give you "6" locks. It gives the DM the potential to create 30 different locks each with a different level of difficulty. By not "defining" each iteration, the designers did not "confine" the DM to just their predetermined table with 6 locks. In addition, with the encounter design philosophy that 4e adopts, you could have a really tough challenging "lock" included as part of an encounter. What if that door that you are trying to get through to escape the host of troglodytes that just surrounded you, is not an easy, level appropriate challenge but a hard one and to top it off is 4 levels higher than your current level? All of a sudden that DC went from 5 to 19. Add some circumstance modifiers, like rain or low-visibility and all of a sudden the trained rogue might need a 14 or 15 on his roll to open that lock. That is what the table on page 42 enables. Personally I prefer that to a static DC of X on a table of 6 locks. Could it have been explained better? Yes. But are the tools provided inadequate? No, not by a long shot. [/QUOTE]

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