Does a character with Uncanny dodge retain their dexterity bonus while

[zlorf]

Does a character with Uncanny dodge retain their dexterity bonus while
unbalanced?

Rule 1: Uncanny dodge page 50 Players
"Starting at 4th level, a rogue can react to danger before her senses would
normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC even if
she is caught flatfooted or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she
still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized"

Rule 2: Being attacked while balancing page 67 Players
"You are considered flat-footed while balancing, since you can't move to
avoid a blow, and thus lose your dexterity bonus to AC (if any). If you
have 5 or more ranks in Balance, you aren't considered flat-footed while
balancing."


My feeling is that they still lose their dexterity bonus & are flatfooted
if they don't have the ranks in Balance, because "you can't move to avoid
a blow" and. I guess the same ruling would work for characters who were
runing without the run fest too?

What do you think?

 

[Centaur]

I would say that the effects of the Uncanny Dodge class ability supercede the rules for the balance skill. In fact, in most cases, I consider a feat or class ability more important/powerfull/relavent than a skill.

Therefore, I would say that the character would still get the benefit of their Dex while unbalanced!

 

[the Jester]

I think that this thread will start a massive debate between 'strict constructionist' and 'loose constructionist' gamers.

As a 'strict constructionist,' I say that Uncanny Dodge only allows you to keep your dex bonus when struck by an invisible opponent or when flat-footed, period. Just like the rules say. Since balancing makes you flat-footed, Uncanny Dodge trumps it.

Now some 'loose constructionist' is going to come along and add that Uncanny Dodge also allows you to keep your dex bonus in other circumstances that normally allow it, except for when you are immobilized. Just like the rules say.

Then the strict constructionists and the loose constructionists will start arguing vehemently about the subject, while a few other people discuss your actual question, which is closely related to but different from the argument the strict and loose constructionists are having.

Now, speaking of your original question, I'm going to elaborate on my answer a little and add that I think that, if they hadn't wanted Uncanny Dodge to trump the loss of dex while balancing, the rule would be phrased, "You lose your dex bonus to AC while balancing, since you can't move to avoid a blow. If you have 5 or more ranks in Balance, you do not lose your dex bonus to AC while balancing."

Instead, it says, "You are considered flat-footed while balancing, since you can't move to avoid a blow, and thus lose your dexterity bonus to AC (if any). If you have 5 or more ranks in Balance, you aren't considered flat-footed while balancing." Flat-footedness is the condition balancing inflicts; flat-footedness is the condition that Uncanny Dodge prevents.

 

[werk]

Not immobilized while balancing = dex bonus.

Immobilized isn't a condition, so it's very poorly worded (IMHO). It should list all the conditions that cause loss of dex bonus. I could only find "immoble" in the pinned condition.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Now, speaking of your original question, I'm going to elaborate on my answer a little and add that I think that, if they hadn't wanted Uncanny Dodge to trump the loss of dex while balancing, the rule would be phrased, "You lose your dex bonus to AC while balancing, since you can't move to avoid a blow. If you have 5 or more ranks in Balance, you do not lose your dex bonus to AC while balancing."

Actually, the designers used the term flat-footed because they wanted you to lose your ability to take an AoO while balancing unless you were good at it (i.e. 5 ranks) or had Combat Reflexes. They have said that in retrospect they should have kept 'flat-footed' as an initial 'pre-combat' condition only and perhaps worded Balance more specifically. C'est la vie.

 

[dcollins]

My reading is that the person with Uncanny Dodge would retain their Dex bonus to AC in that situation.

 

[JimAde]

Not technically a Rules opinion, but I would allow the rogue to keep the Dex bonus just because it's cool. Balancing on your toes on, say, the edge of a rooftop, nimbly crouching, stretching and even turning cartwheels to avoid attacks.

Very rogue-ey.

When the rules are unclear, I go with what looks good.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Not technically a Rules opinion, but I would allow the rogue to keep the Dex bonus just because it's cool.

But any acrobatic rogue worth his salt is going to have the 5 ranks in Balance required to allow it anyway, and before he gets Uncanny Dodge, too.

 

[JimAde]

But any acrobatic rogue worth his salt is going to have the 5 ranks in Balance required to allow it anyway, and before he gets Uncanny Dodge, too.

Good point.

Note to self: Think before you post!

 

[zlorf]

Thanks for the comments.

Would uncanny dodge help you keep your dex if you were running?

Z