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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Xylix" data-source="post: 503253" data-attributes="member: 9089">Logical Fallicies are a pet peave.   Addressing the first part of the sentance, when I brought up the second is evading the question, a logical fallicy.He should have stated his second post in the first place.Correct,  Something I agree with,  I brought up the earlier to check the premises mister  "I make a statment it is true because I said so"  will accept.He accepts apparently that if it describes itself as death, then it is death.  Thus Bodak's gaze is a death effect.Thus I can argue if its description describes a death effect, it is a death effect.  This is very important for several issues, including said items like 'Vorpal, Nine Lives Stealer'Which would also mean symbol is a death effect.  Which is also quite obvious.Where is your line that states it does not block disintigration?   Heck where is your line that says it only blocks effects that snuff out your life force.Afterall snuffing out your life force isn't a death effect, it is snuffing out your lifeforce effect.Death is merely a side effect.However, I do belive everyone in here considers that a death effect.Phantamal killer is simply using an illusion to convince someone that their life has been snuffed out.   If you are immune to your life being snuffed out then you would obviously automatically disbelieve the illusion.   Just like if you have an illusion of a fireball, and you are immune to fire, you obviously would not bother with a save, afterall you would have no reason to believe there would be harm.There is no rule stating the need for a death descriptor.The second sentance indicates that the first sentance would have applied to those things given exception, otherwise there is no need for them to give an exception.Conclusion there is no stated need for a death descriptor. Otherwise there would have been no need to state the exceptions that would never have applied.As such a death effect can be construed to be a death effect that does not seem to follow the series of events labled.  Those labled are 'non-direct' death effects.  Effects that cause death as a secondary ruling from the spells effect after the primary effects are inacted.Phantasmal killer does not state you go to deadly panic state of fear.  It states you die from fear.   It has no intermediate step.It acts in all ways like a death effect (after you pass the illusion part that is).  There for   it is a death effect.As the spell is describing death effect.You are not an athority on the subject.  If you state "The sage states Disintegrate is not a death effect,"  then you are set.I suggest you cease making statments without backing them up.   In this case I would have suggested that nowhere in Disintegrate does it say 'die'  is says transmutes to dust.What is more Fort saves are accepted for transumation saves.  As such we can declare it is not death merely a transmutation to dust.Of course then, if it is merely a transmutation I will reply by healing it with a Polymorph Other.  After all the player never died, he just turned to dust.However you have not done so.   I happen to disagree with this premise,  Disitegrate is in every sense a death effect, except for the tags.Tags are not clearly stated as needed, no one has given evidence that the tags are needed.   I have given 'accepted' as not rejected evidence that the tags are not needed.As such one must conclude tags are not needed.Thus if tags are not needed then disintegrate is a death effect, and is negated by death ward.If you have a counter example based on the  sage that is a good place for you to start YOUR counter argument.I do not accept baseless statements.If that is all you have I suggest you reconsider you blind supportless position.  If you have more you should offer it instead of just statments.   The people here are not so idiotic to belive statements with no given backing.I would agree, just because I consider Phantasmal Killer a death effect does not mean it ceases to be a mindeffecting fear effect as well.   Nor does it cease to be an illusion.Assuming so would be a false presumption.Also the protection against fear spells would give bonuses against this save. Though one  could presume the will save is the save against fear, and thus only give the bonus to that.It is up to interpetation.</blockquote>

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