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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Shirt Guy John" data-source="post: 504571" data-attributes="member: 2356">I know I should quit but...Okay, so that was more of an attempt to be funny than an attempt to do anything.  Sorry if you took me seriously on that, I'm used to communicating with people who are used to my sense of humor.  I humbly appologise.And now to the topic at hand.  Assuming you (the guy who is way over-logical) were counting only people who had been "neutral" at some point (which is damn funny considering how logical you appear to be.  Prove or disprove that the people on here aren't going to have any bias and i'll know you're crazy), how about people who were on your side in the beginning?  Innitially I was in the camp of "What?  Since when was Phantasmal Killer not a death spell?", but after reading the arguments herein, I switched my view.  It never dawned on me that Phantasmal Killer kills through fear (an indirect death effect, just like a leathal fireball or meteor swarm or death by poison), but once that was drawn to my attention, I couldn't see how Death Ward could possibly protect against it.  IF you were really wanting that, you would have to make a spell that made you immune to fear effects (like the Paladin), which would save your a$$ against this spell.Now I know that this line of thought has been shown to you before.  I would try to argue using your logic but frankly... I don't follow half of it.  I mean, this is a game with its own rules (though this seems to be the minority opinion) and sometimes logic doesn't win out over pure rules.  I think there's more sophistry than logic in your posts anywho (again, as someone else already pointed out).  But here goes anyways...Barring any snooty (snotty) definitions that really aren't necessary, I'll try it like this.  In the core books, death spells are a definate thing, like alignments.  There are spells and abilities that are distiguished as "Death effects", such as spells with the death discriptor or the death attack of an assassin.  The spell Death Ward protects against death spells and magical death effects and nothing else.  Death spells are pretty simple; they have the [Death] discriptor on them.  Magical death effects would be anything else that caused instant death by means of a death effect; it doesn't do anything else to you, just kill you dead by hitting your life force.  This makes the Death Ward spell protect against a good sized but well defined group of effects.  Anything else (which includes the Phantasmal Killer spell) is not prevented by this ward.  I think it's fairly well set out.  Now you could argue that the game designers screwed up with not putting the [death] discriptor on Phantasmal Killer, but at this point, I think that if it had been a mistake, it would have been remedied in the FAQ (and it very well could have to my knowledge, 'cause I've never read the damded thing) or in errata somewhere.  As it has not, I think that without going into the real of house rules, you'd have to stick with the definition of death spells that the game was built with.Now my argument here of course is just a regurgitated of everyone else's, sumarized a very little bit.  I've tried to stick with how a reasonable person who respects the rules at all as they're written (as I think is fair to assume we all should be in the Rules forum), and not how real world philosophical logic would go through it, because frankly, that's just a bit inapropriate 'round here.And I really wish Troll wasn't used to describe posters like this (and probably people who keep 'em going too... damn me).  Trolls are a noble and powerful breed, who scare the living bezebus outta' me.  this guy's just annoying.</blockquote>

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