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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jbear" data-source="post: 5788991" data-attributes="member: 75065">You can learn about resource management without being forced to pull out a crossbow when you have used your powerful spells. Wizards pulling out crossbows is frankly a lame concept. The mechanics here force wizards to use crossbows when otherwise the character probably wouldn't because mechanically its better to take a pot shot than do nothing. So a wizard pulling out a crossbow is gamist, nothing to do with pure RP.Lethality is fine. But it doesnt lend itself towards making a great adventure. Dead mean don't walk. As a DM I don't think its my role to 'teach' players how they should be playing by slapping an arbitrary death on them. So what you say here is not a truth. Far from it. You are talking about your preference of game. So what a player 'needs to be taught' will/can/must vary from game to game. I would say that it is important to teach players that the only limits are there imaginations, and that attempting heroic actions will be met with not arbitray deaths to teach them the supposed values of RP, but with heroic outcomes. Different strokes for different folksYour use of the phrase 'sense of entitlement is very revealing about your attitudes towards your players. God forbid they feel like they are playing a game while they are playing a game!!! Roleplaying and Game are not mutually exclusive. Well before they were facing lethal bandits ... now they are flying airships in the astral sea battling deadly hordes of Githyanki. If they were to fight bandits they wouldn't be lethal. But why would you have high level characters facing those threats? That would be boring.Now that I have that out of the way: "No, I personally don't miss crap 1st level characters"I do remember the games I grew up playing as a kid which we would always begin as little kids and play through the characters childhood. I do have  a recollection of us trying out 0-level rules in a celtic campaign, but we were kids and didn't really give a stuff about the rules. It was all about the adventure and the story. We reached lvl 1 when our childhood had finished and we had become young adults, at which point the real adventure began. We didn't even bother with xp during that initial part of the adventure. At certain points when challenges were overcome we received a reward like a metal dagger instead of out wooden sword etc etc.It was plenty of fun, and I'd love to see this option as part of the system. Just make it an option. HP reduction? Not fussed. You can do this and still have 1st level heroic heroes. You just have to reduce dmg out put of monsters. The question is how many hits do you want characters/monsters to take. [sblock=For me<img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":]" title="Devious    :]" data-shortname=":]" /> 3 should kill pretty much all but the most important monsters so 3 for a PC as well. 2 big hits could take a monster/PC down, a crit should be able to down both as well on a big hit. Weak monsters should be able to be killed in one, two at the most. [/sblock]If character building is going to involve a point buy system so that different players can have the style of character they prefer and still be able to play the same game, I'm sure it will be easy enough for DMs to offer players a low, medium or high point buy to achieve the level of 'heroicity' of PCs they want for the start of the campaign.</blockquote>

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